Is there such a thing as excessive nerfing?

[tatum]

There is no rule saying you cannot nerf. Where are you reading this?

Go to BITD site and click on UTV rules page 13 and it is there. I didn't believe it so I downloaded it and sure enough it was there.

 

[Rusty5150]

From the official UTVRA rule book.


E2. Pit support vehicles traveling on the racecourse before the official end of event: Disqualification.
E3. Pits (stationary, roving or chase) located in any areas other than those areas officially recognized as pit areas as designated by Best In The Desert Racing Association: Disqualification.
F. Minor nerfing: One position.
G. Major nerfing: Disqualification.
H. Abusive conduct toward a race official: Disqualification, suspension, one hundred dollar ($100) fine or any combination of the three.
I. Short coursing: Disqualification.
J. Stationary pits or chase crews outside of designated areas or traveling in restricted areas: Disqualification.
K. Reckless driving in pit areas or any access roads by race vehicle or race support vehicles: Disqualification.
L. Speeding in a restricted speed area up to 10mph over announced or posted speed limit by race vehicle or race support vehicles: One position.
M. Speeding in a restricted speed area over 10mph over announced or posted speed limit by race vehicle or race support vehicles: Disqualification.
N. Any combination of two or more infractions at any one Best In The Desert Racing Association sponsored event: Disqualification.
O. Rolling through a paved road crossing (i.e., failure to come to a complete stop): 15 minute time penalty each occurrence.
P. Speeding through and/or unsafe racing up to or through a paved road crossing: 15 minute Time Penalty or Disqualification.
SIP2: The Director has the final decision on all issues involving any Best In The Desert Racing Association events. The Director has full discretion to make any final determinations, judgments, suspensions or penalties in relationship to all Best In The Desert Racing Association rules and/or regulations.


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[Always Watching]

Seems pretty black and white to me. States in the rules that minor nerfing is a one position penalty, with a self incriminating video posted in another thread. To bad that SIP2 will be the saving grace, it was when BITD towed a team to the next pit.

 

[Rusty5150]

Seems pretty black and white to me. States in the rules that minor nerfing is a one position penalty, with a self incriminating video posted in another thread. To bad that SIP2 will be the saving grace, it was when BITD towed a team to the next pit.

There is also a clear rule about this.

SEC13: No vehicle shall be towed, pushed, pulled or transported by any non-race- entered vehicle on the official course while an official event is still in progress. Another race entered vehicle or an official Best In The Desert Racing Association vehicle may push, pull or tow the race-entered vehicle up to the nearest pit stop or checkpoint but may not push, pull or tow it through the pit stop or checkpoint. Occupants of the vehicle that is pushed pulled or towed to that point must make necessary repairs in order to leave that area under their own power. No vehicle may be pushed, pulled or towed by another vehicle within the last two- hundred yards (200 yards) of the finish; only the vehicle occupants at the time of the breakdown may push the vehicle through the finish line. No other person or persons will be permitted to assist in pushing, pulling or towing the vehicle. Best In The Desert Racing Association officials may lend assistance to any race vehicle or the vehicle occupants in any manor Best In The Desert Racing Association deemed reasonable, such as retrieving the vehicle, pulling the vehicle, shuttling parts, tools and equipment, etc.


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[Always Watching]

There is also a clear rule about this.

SEC13: No vehicle shall be towed, pushed, pulled or transported by any non-race- entered vehicle on the official course while an official event is still in progress. Another race entered vehicle or an official Best In The Desert Racing Association vehicle may push, pull or tow the race-entered vehicle up to the nearest pit stop or checkpoint but may not push, pull or tow it through the pit stop or checkpoint. Occupants of the vehicle that is pushed pulled or towed to that point must make necessary repairs in order to leave that area under their own power. No vehicle may be pushed, pulled or towed by another vehicle within the last two- hundred yards (200 yards) of the finish; only the vehicle occupants at the time of the breakdown may push the vehicle through the finish line. No other person or persons will be permitted to assist in pushing, pulling or towing the vehicle. Best In The Desert Racing Association officials may lend assistance to any race vehicle or the vehicle occupants in any manor Best In The Desert Racing Association deemed reasonable, such as retrieving the vehicle, pulling the vehicle, shuttling parts, tools and equipment, etc.


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I'm very clear on the rules and continue to adhere to them, as do other top tier teams. As I stated, the SIP2 (Casey Folks and BITD) is/was/always will be the saving grace. If the rule was followed, then they should have been towed to Pit 1, not Pit 2, regardless of any excuse or agenda. If they were again followed in other races, teams would be docked positions for nerfing, they weren't, even with video accounts being posted that Casey himself has seen.

I'm not here to bring up old topics, simply pointing out the fact that the people who constantly bitch about sanctioning bodies and those who run them have often gotten their asses saved by the same people.

 

[george.felix]

I'm very clear on the rules and continue to adhere to them, as do other top tier teams. As I stated, the SIP2 (Casey Folks and BITD) is/was/always will be the saving grace. If the rule was followed, then they should have been towed to Pit 1, not Pit 2, regardless of any excuse or agenda. If they were again followed in other races, teams would be docked positions for nerfing, they weren't, even with video accounts being posted that Casey himself has seen.

I'm not here to bring up old topics, simply pointing out the fact that the people who constantly bitch about sanctioning bodies and those who run them have often gotten their asses saved by the same people.

It's just the mentality of the BITD culture with some individuals not all. The SS incident is compared to our first race where we were the last car and BITD towed us down the hill a few hundred yrds. It's pretty childish. Your correct it's old news but SS was an abomination to anyone who ever raced anything on wheels. We on the other hand were just towed to get the f*** off the course.

Just look how long it took to acknowledge the rule. It's been posted 3-4 times and ignored because some people are just that way. Same ones you see on the freeway cutting in and out of traffic. Rules not made for them that's part if driving on LA freeways even though 90% of the other cars don't do it. Same guy that runs the lane and merges at the last second. Ok that's me but you get the idea. It's a way of thinking.

Btw, idk if anyone says I'm a puss from their keyboard. I'm older more experienced and been thru more tough times than most of the entitled pretty boys who jump on each other's bandwagons that can't think for themselves writing this stuff. Were making progress breaking in the top 10 now... Lol So when we finish are you going to go public that you got beat by an old man who's a big puss?

Not directed at anyone in particular but if the shoe fits.......

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

I'm very clear on the rules... If they were again followed in other races, teams would be docked positions for nerfing, they weren't, even with video accounts being posted that Casey himself has seen. I'm not here to bring up old topics, simply pointing out the fact that the people who constantly bitch about sanctioning bodies and those who run them have often gotten their asses saved by the same people."

After a while, you wonder if somebody will (ever) just come out and say what is needing to be said (thanks).
Here's another:
I could care less what the rules are..you guys (sorry.."tight knit racing community") have the power within you to drastically improve the safety of these races tomorrow...and you all full well know it.

FORCE every single sanctioning body to adopt one simple rule:
No car shall ever have anything protruding from the farthest point (front or rear) that does not match in height, size and width every other car in the class IF you all want to continue nerfing (ie. "damn the rules").

It's one thing to ignore rules concerning safety on the course...quite another when somebody gets killed/maimed during the act.
The second that this happens?
Everybody racing that day will know full well that it might have been prevented had they truly acted like the same "community" suddenly being quoted on social media and around hospital beds or at funerals to make everybody feel better.

Communities aren't people who just happen to live next to each other or 'like doing the same thing'.

They're people who stand up TOGETHER when they witness something that needs to change for the good of it.

 

[tatum]

After a while, you wonder if somebody will (ever) just come out and say what is needing to be said (thanks).
Here's another:
I could care less what the rules are..you guys (sorry.."tight knit racing community") have the power within you to drastically improve the safety of these races tomorrow...and you all full well know it.

FORCE every single sanctioning body to adopt one simple rule:
No car shall ever have anything protruding from the farthest point (front or rear) that does not match in height, size and width every other car in the class IF you all want to continue nerfing (ie. "damn the rules").

It's one thing to ignore rules concerning safety on the course...quite another when somebody gets killed/maimed during the act.
The second that this happens?
Everybody racing that day will now full well that it might have been prevented had they truly acted like the same "community" suddenly being quoted on social media and around hospital beds or at funerals to make everybody feel better.

Communities aren't people who just happen to live next to each other or 'like doing the same thing'.

They're people who stand up TOGETHER when they witness something that needs to change for the good of it.

The majority of the racing community help each other out and are pretty close knit from my experience. Many people in the same class loan each other expensive parts and even help with repairs. The majority of passes made are done so with no nerfing and good sportsmanship. However there are a few who jack rabbit or dont watch their mirrors and generally make bad choices over and over again and THEY are the problem. Hopefully some day they will figure it out.

 

[george.felix]

The majority of passes made are done so with no nerfing and good sportsmanship. However there are a few who jack rabbit or dont watch their mirrors and generally make bad choices over and over again and THEY are the problem. Hopefully some day they will figure it out.

So what's the unspoken rule if you catch someone how long should you wait before you nerf them?

Jack Rabbit is that another word for racing? In some cases someone's been napping and maybe they just want to see if you can stay up with them now that you have their full attention. When you show that you can then they pull off. That's racing! I'm just asking cuz Ihad a car on my ass at V2R for miles they never passed or nerfed I did speed up when I saw them.....finally I went off course into the desert at the first next turn which was a hard right so they cut under me as I bounced around on rocks and bushes trying to get back over the berm. Finally I did and caught them 300-400 yards later and passed in the desert never touched them. That's fun racing! I didn't want them to pull over..... I wanted to pass them at race speed. And I should add they passed us back about a mile or so later in the dry lake. It's just racing not I caught u and u started 30 sec sooner so you need to move or I'll ram you. I know there's a common sense aspect here but this discussion is about being too quick to nerf if you nerf at all. FYI we get out of the way as soon as we know a faster cars behind us. Your right most pass clean. However it's the same few cars doing most of the nerfing and involved in multiple incidents.
[QUOTE="staggs, post: 182063, member: 2933" If your calling bullshit on you can't get around them then why did you nerf lopez? in the Baja 500. No matter how you want to paint the picture nerfing isn't going to go any where, make sure you build the back of your car to take a nerf, have your bumper stick out far enough to limit tires touching etc. The co-driver has a big role in this and before you tell me how would I know, I have some experience being passenger lol. See you at the races George[/QUOTE]

In Baja we started 21 and passed at least 16 cars half were passed in the pits. Nearly all the others would rabbit. The section where most took place was twisting and turning w drops and rain ruts etc. It was fun to dogfight with other cars but it was dangerous you had to stay close and one time the car in front moved over a hair and we didn't and almost went off a 3 ft drop.....like half our tire was on course. Eventually most pulled off and we passed clean. I nerfed Lopez because he wouldn't pull over forever.......turned out he had no brakes and I hit him really hard.....it jacked my car up and his a little. From that experience I can see how it can go wrong. It didn't feel as hard as it was to me. Lopez was pissed!!!!! Don't blame him he "had " a nice car. Lol Alba would not pull over for nothing nor should they have. We caught them then they pulled away then we caught them and couldn't hold on to their bumper......finally we held on long enough they moved over. I think that's the way it should be.....we had to earn it!

As was stated by Tatum most passes are clean and not nerfed. That proves the faster cars mostly agree it's not the first thing you do when catching a car........,use common sense. The rules should reflect that IMO. If you damaged someone's car then you probably didn't use common sense and I don't mean a little dent. I hope that it makes everyone more aware.....I will be.

 

[rupert14]

The majority of the racing community help each other out and are pretty close knit from my experience. Many people in the same class loan each other expensive parts and even help with repairs. The majority of passes made are done so with no nerfing and good sportsmanship. However there are a few who jack rabbit or dont watch their mirrors and generally make bad choices over and over again and THEY are the problem. Hopefully some day they will figure it out.

Well said and I completely agree. The problem is the ones that don't understand they are racing the clock, not the position on the course. I pray that THEY do figure it out, if they ever understand they are the problem.

I don't ever see a system of "paying for another car" in racing. If that is what George is waiting for, perhaps another sport would be better. It seems you are spending a lot of time here making a point that only proves your level of understanding. Please let this issue go, understand how racing works and if you choose to stay, calm down and enjoy being part of our tight knit group.

We all understand "your point", and we are busy working on our cars for future races. Everyone has an opinion, we all understand yours, now please stop bringing negative light to our group. I look forward to seeing you at a future race and enjoying this sport we all love.

 

[tatum]

So what's the unspoken rule if you catch someone how long should you wait before you nerf them?

Jack Rabbit is that another word for racing? In some cases someone's been napping and maybe they just want to see if you can stay up with them now that you have their full attention. When you show that you can then they pull off. That's racing! I'm just asking cuz Ihad a car on my ass at V2R for miles they never passed or nerfed I did speed up when I saw them.....finally I went off course into the desert at the first next turn which was a hard right so they cut under me as I bounced around on rocks and bushes trying to get back over the berm. Finally I did and caught them 300-400 yards later and passed in the desert never touched them. That's fun racing! I didn't want them to pull over..... I wanted to pass them at race speed. And I should add they passed us back about a mile or so later in the dry lake. It's just racing not I caught u and u started 30 sec sooner so you need to move or I'll ram you. I know there's a common sense aspect here but this discussion is about being too quick to nerf if you nerf at all. FYI we get out of the way as soon as we know a faster cars behind us. Your right most pass clean. However it's the same few cars doing most of the nerfing and involved in multiple incidents.
[QUOTE="staggs, post: 182063, member: 2933" If your calling bullshit on you can't get around them then why did you nerf lopez? in the Baja 500. No matter how you want to paint the picture nerfing isn't going to go any where, make sure you build the back of your car to take a nerf, have your bumper stick out far enough to limit tires touching etc. The co-driver has a big role in this and before you tell me how would I know, I have some experience being passenger lol. See you at the races George

In Baja we started 21 and passed at least 16 cars half were passed in the pits. Nearly all the others would rabbit. The section where most took place was twisting and turning w drops and rain ruts etc. It was fun to dogfight with other cars but it was dangerous you had to stay close and one time the car in front moved over a hair and we didn't and almost went off a 3 ft drop.....like half our tire was on course. Eventually most pulled off and we passed clean. I nerfed Lopez because he wouldn't pull over forever.......turned out he had no brakes and I hit him really hard.....it jacked my car up and his a little. From that experience I can see how it can go wrong. It didn't feel as hard as it was to me. Lopez was pissed!!!!! Don't blame him he "had " a nice car. Lol Alba would not pull over for nothing nor should they have. We caught them then they pulled away then we caught them and couldn't hold on to their bumper......finally we held on long enough they moved over. I think that's the way it should be.....we had to earn it!

As was stated by Tatum most passes are clean and not nerfed. That proves the faster cars mostly agree it's not the first thing you do when catching a car........,use common sense. The rules should reflect that IMO. If you damaged someone's car then you probably didn't use common sense and I don't mean a little dent. I hope that it makes everyone more aware.....I will be.[/QUOTE]

If someone catches you, and you take off because all of a sudden your ready to race, that is jack rabbiting. Now they know you see them so be ready and dont complain.

 

[CodyNygren]

Look, I find it complete bullshit that my nerf to Cody did any damage to his car. It ruined our steering rack pretty bad but whatever. If it did do damage, and anyone is to blame for it causing damage to his car it's his own damn fault for having a rear bumper that doesn't compensate for the tires touching!!! Their race recap contains details that the clutch was wearing out before they came to a stop. That exact problem has happened to our clutches at multiple races lately. Its a common problem and doesnt happen from being nerfed!!! Our front bumper is 6 inches longer than anyone elses for this exact reason!

I never said that the nerf took us out of the race. As for this whole tire touching that never happened especially if your bumper really sticks out 6''. When nerfed at Baja there was no tire contact and that was dead center. I measured my rear bumper the other night and my rear tires stick out a whole 1" past the bumper. So if you have 6' that still leaves 5''. My car was built with 28" tires and we moved to 30" thus being the reason the bumper is like this. Yes I have it in the plans to extend but this wasn't not the reasoning.

 

[CodyNygren]

My team is out to win every single race we enter. We don't spend the money, the time or the effort to go out and finish second place. Most guys are out there to win also. Cognito is not out for blood for any particular team. To hear everyone say we're out nerfing the shit out of everyone is just crazy. Yes, Victor got into Matlock at the 500 hard. He wasn't trying to. He was on his tail and matlock got into the brakes a bit when Victor went to nerf him. Cody says he was running in the top 5 at the time of the nerf, which Is hard for me to believe but it's possible as I haven't looked into it. I was trying to make up time from our pit 3 stop that took quite a while. I was chasing him since the road crossing. I was eating rocks and dust like crazy and I felt like I could run that PowerLine road much faster than he was even going. My job was just to get the car to pit 5 in good shape and be in the top 10. Had I known that it was going to damage our steering rack and take 40 minutes of down time to change it, i would have gone into cruise control mode. Unfortunately it wasn't what happened and almost cost my team the race. It never crossed my mind that our tires were gonna touch and throw the race away for us. I simply just wanted around him and he wasn't giving anything up. I assumed he seen me at you road crossing where there was no dust. I think it's pretty common to check your mirrors at road crossings to see if anyone Is behind you.

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

"..The problem is the ones that don't understand.. I don't ever see a system of "paying for another car" in racing. If that is what George is waiting for, perhaps another sport would be better. It seems you are spending a lot of time here making a point that only proves your level of understanding. Please let this issue go, understand how racing works and if you choose to stay, calm down and enjoy being part of our tight knit group.

We all understand "your point", and we are busy working on our cars for future races. Everyone has an opinion, we all understand yours, now please stop bringing negative light to our group.."

Every single time that you hear somebody trying to tell you (and more importantly, everyone around both of you) that "..you (just) don't understand..".... 9 times out of 10?..you "understand" very well and have just pointed out something that the other person (not to mention everyone else around him) would just as soon not see the light of day beyond that statement.
George is over 60 years old.
He "understands" more than most of you guys might ever given the pampered upbringings that dumped many of you in to a class 1900 race car this season. Up until now, every racer on here (except the top ones now who have 'somehow' finally realized that it is stupid to do so) was bragging beyond belief as to how they nerfed this guy or that, DAMN the same simple rule that George full well 'understood' and even did himself.

BECAUSE of the thread he started...involving the single most important SAFETY rule that you guys race by...we all just received a startling glimpse in to the 'tight knit community' that is apparently all about claiming (loudly) that a fellow racer ought to 'get out of racing' if he has the common sense to put safety and the rules surrounding same FIRST. What do you guys teach your kids, anyways? Daddy doesn't give a rip what the rules say, win at all costs, the guy getting nerfed will ALWAYS wind up worse than you and hide the evidence?

You want 'the old man' to shut up (now) NOT due to his level of understanding...but exactly the opposite...and it shows.

Just look how long it took to acknowledge the rule. It's been posted 3-4 times and ignored... I'm older more experienced and been thru more tough times than most of the entitled pretty boys who jump on each other's bandwagons that can't think for themselves writing this stuff. ..

They know exactly what's at stake here (look at the number of top guys in this class staying clear of the conversation) and recognize that if simple intimidation and non-video-recorded "accidents" are taken away from their repertoire(?)..raw skill/guts very quickly fills that void. I posted the solution (taped footage..period) yet a good share of them know that the the standings today wouldn't even look like they do (let alone tomorrow) if the rules being ignored presently were indeed documented or followed.

They want you to stop and go away for one simple reason, George...the 1900 class (as one well placed person I ran in to described the entire industry) is "nothing but smoke and mirrors" in terms of anything that can legitimately be passed down to our kids in any legacy-type fashion. They don't want to follow the rules because ignoring them is so much more profitable.

And I'm sorry...but that's nothing to be proud of if you race, sponsor, support or even follow this sport.

 

[BiggJim]

Every single time that you hear somebody trying to tell you (and more importantly, everyone around both of you) that "..you (just) don't understand..".... 9 times out of 10?..you "understand" very well and have just pointed out something that the other person (not to mention everyone else around him) would just as soon not see the light of day beyond that statement.
George is over 60 years old.
He "understands" more than most of you guys might ever given the pampered upbringings that dumped many of you in to a class 1900 race car this season. Up until now, every racer on here (except the top ones now who have 'somehow' finally realized that it is stupid to do so) was bragging beyond belief as to how they nerfed this guy or that, DAMN the same simple rule that George full well 'understood' and even did himself.

BECAUSE of the thread he started...involving the single most important SAFETY rule that you guys race by...we all just received a startling glimpse in to the 'tight knit community' that is apparently all about claiming (loudly) that a fellow racer ought to 'get out of racing' if he has the common sense to put safety and the rules surrounding same FIRST. What do you guys teach your kids, anyways? Daddy doesn't give a rip what the rules say, win at all costs, the guy getting nerfed will ALWAYS wind up worse than you and hide the evidence?

You want 'the old man' to shut up (now) NOT due to his level of understanding...but exactly the opposite...and it shows.



They know exactly what's at stake here (look at the number of top guys in this class staying clear of the conversation) and recognize that if simple intimidation and non-video-recorded "accidents" are taken away from their repertoire(?)..raw skill/guts very quickly fills that void. I posted the solution (taped footage..period) yet a good share of them know that the the standings today wouldn't even look like they do (let alone tomorrow) if the rules being ignored presently were indeed documented or followed.

They want you to stop and go away for one simple reason, George...the 1900 class (as one well placed person I ran in to described the entire industry) is "nothing but smoke and mirrors" in terms of anything that can legitimately be passed down to our kids in any legacy-type fashion. They don't want to follow the rules because ignoring them is so much more profitable.

And I'm sorry...but that's nothing to be proud of if you race, sponsor, support or even follow this sport.

You sure have alot to say for a guy that remains Anonymous

 

[BiggJim]

What is this Implying?

 

[CodyNygren]

What is this Implying?

I was out all weekend so im just catching up on the Monday drama....in Sheaklys post he references whether or not I was running to 5 at the time like I stated. So this is just showing that yes I was nothing else.

 

[Rusty5150]

So much hate.


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[It'sYourLegacy]

So much hate.

Imagine what kids reading this must think..it's the only place where they can get a true feel for what it's like to race that sick machine in the window...and here's a 60 year old man (when I was their age it was called 'respect') getting beat up for pointing out what the rules are in life.

I don't blame him for looking at these younger guys with an attitude as we wouldn't have gotten away with it...no how..no way.

 

[COGNITO]

Imagine what kids reading this must think..it's the only place where they can get a true feel for what it's like to race that sick machine in the window...and here's a 60 year old man (when I was their age it was called 'respect') getting beat up for pointing out what the rules are in life.

I don't blame him for looking at these younger guys with an attitude as we wouldn't have gotten away with it...no how..no way.

Pretty one sided you are...

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