**ATTN: Racers/Teams** UTV Desert Rules Discussion

[Bajaxp]

I'm game. The three agenda items that I would throw out there for discussion are:
1) inclusion of the Commander 1000 along with the Cat 1000's in BITD racing along with how to deal with big bores.
2) minimizing the number of classes yes/no?
3) Rules commonality for BITD, SCORE and SNORE for UTV class.

 

[tatum]

Right now score only has a sportsman class.I am all for the one class in BITD or whatever everyone thinks is fair.I probably wont get to participate any way unless the start letting the UTVs run without a co driver.

 

[Mike L]

I'm game. The three agenda items that I would throw out there for discussion are:
1) inclusion of the Commander 1000 along with the Cat 1000's in BITD racing along with how to deal with big bores.
2) minimizing the number of classes yes/no?
3) Rules commonality for BITD, SCORE and SNORE for UTV class.

4) RZR 4 and it's extra wheel base... If it comes with four seats should four people have to be in it...

 

[Team Green]

Right now score only has a sportsman class.I am all for the one class in BITD or whatever everyone thinks is fair.I probably wont get to participate any way unless the start letting the UTVs run without a co driver.

This is a perfect example, Hans can't drive nessy in BITD because it only has one seat and was originally designed for two. If a car is raced that was designed for 4 but only has two it should fall in the same category.

I raced the Nessy and I love only being in it bymyself but I would rather race it in sportman buggy class next time.

This is a complicated mess and concessions will need to be made somewhere as not everyone will be hpaay with the outcome because most everyone has an entry in the game and is reluctant to change or give in. The bottom line is, if they want to race a spot should be made for them. We can't discourage participation or the sport will slowly die.

I am all for a meeting to discuss but eventually someone needs to be a dictator and make the call. This is one of the only racing types that doesn't have a real governing body (sorry Cory) and until there is there will always be these discussions.

 

[Bajaxp]

ML...you are laughing at my expense because of our discussion at SSSS.

I think if you race a RZR 4 you need to have four people in the car that all weigh over 250 lbs...only fair right. JK

But seriously guys let's get together at the Parker race and discuss. I vote for very simple rules and very few classes (eg...2).

Crowdog and JX BS said it well (paraphrased) that let's not over think this thing, keep it simple, and focus on car count and finishing. And yes Bill S...a short wheelbase, single cylinder Rhino is leading points.

Honestly, I want to build this class and 'include' everyone. Let's race and have fun and more will follow. I would love to be racing 30 guys in 2012.

 

[07fj]

This is a perfect example, Hans can't drive nessy in BITD because it only has one seat and was originally designed for two.

I agree, this is "SXS" class racing. all UTV's should have two matching seats in any race series. It all started that way.

 

[rockstarcustomz]

We don't need a separate governing body. The governing body could be us, the racers. We just need to get together and vote. The majority vote gets it. That's how it works in SNORE. The racers decide what happens to the classes. Cory has been very instrumental in BITD and I certainly want him on board. I think we are on the right track here. Simple, few classes and lets vote. The more racers that show up at any event makes it better for all of us. More fun, and more sponsorship opportunities.

 

[JoeyD23]

I think Hans / Nessy should be able to run in BITD. It should be the drivers choice to run a co driver or not. What does another team care if a guy wants to run solo? Whats the real advantage? Seems to me there is way more disadvantage. If he gets a flat or stuck he has a harder time then someone with a co dog.

UTV's have and are changing, the rules need to reflect the progression. This isnt 2007 anymore!

 

[rockstarcustomz]

I think Hans / Nessy should be able to run in BITD. It should be the drivers choice to run a co driver or not. What does another team care if a guy wants to run solo? Whats the real advantage? Seems to me there is way more disadvantage. If he gets a flat or stuck he has a harder time then someone with a co dog.

UTV's have and are changing, the rules need to reflect the progression. This isnt 2007 anymore!

Yes, but do we want this turn into something like the protruck or jeepspeed? I can't afford for my sport to turn into unlimited amounts of money to play. I like the fact that we have specific boundaries. It keeps the class in check. I'm sure there is a place for Nessy, but I don't know where.

 

[Crowdog]

Just like a RZR 4 has an advantage of extra space, so does a 2 seater with only one seat. UTV's with two seats are a pain to work on. Just not enough space. That makes field repairs more difficult and time consuming.

If I knew I wasn't running a co-dog, I might move my fuel cell up there or at least the spare tire, jack, tools, etc. Then there is weight savings. 200+ lbs for co-dog is huge when you are talking about low HP UTVs.

I personally don't have a problem with the RZR 4 or Hans running in a normal pro class, but I would hate to see everyone go that direction. It just gets us farther away from being a SxS and more towards a buggy.

And I don't see why UTVs need their own association or any special tech inspection. There aren't enough differences for UTVs to make it necessary to run separate from the trucks and buggies. I say racers come up with the rules and run them through tech with the rest of them.

 

[JoeyD23]

now there are some valid points. I guess I didnt think about that......

All good dialogue!!

 

[Bajaxp]

I agree...all good dialog.

I built my RZR 4 after I talked to Cory. It fits into ALL current BITD/UTVRA rules and SCORE rules (not many...I know). In BITD a Commander isn't currently allowed in, nor a single seat, nor a 800cc+ big bore. So honestly someone would have to say that my current, completely legal car is somehow, now...not legal. Yes, I need to get a life, but I'll bet I have read the current rules 12 times and I was very conscous of them when I started.

But having said that, I see no issue with racing against Commanders and big bore Kaws. Let's just take the current rules and expand the displacement to 1000cc's.

now there are some valid points. I guess I didnt think about that......

All good dialogue!!

 

[Rusty5150]

Are we meeting at Parker? Where and when?

 

[Crowdog]

I agree...all good dialog.

I built my RZR 4 after I talked to Cory. It fits into ALL current BITD/UTVRA rules and SCORE rules (not many...I know). In BITD a Commander isn't currently allowed in, nor a single seat, nor a 800cc+ big bore. So honestly someone would have to say that my current, completely legal car is somehow, now...not legal. Yes, I need to get a life, but I'll bet I have read the current rules 12 times and I was very conscous of them when I started.

But having said that, I see no issue with racing against Commanders and big bore Kaws. Let's just take the current rules and expand the displacement to 1000cc's.

Matt, I completely realize that you followed the rules and got approval from Cory. I think your car turned out awesome and I can't wait to see how it does.

I was just trying to respond to the question of why no single when a 4 seater with two seats is fine. There is a point to be made there.

Like I said, I don't have a problem racing with you or Hans, but I would hate to see the class migrate itself away from "Side x Side".

 

[Bajaxp]

No worries...I wasn't specifically responding to you. Mine, was just a general comment. JC...seriously think about racing with us at the Blue Water Oct 16-17. Not only would all of us like to run against your very nice rig, we would love to have you attend the meeting to discuss future rules. What say you ole wise one?

Matt, I completely realize that you followed the rules and got approval from Cory. I think your car turned out awesome and I can't wait to see how it does.

I was just trying to respond to the question of why no single when a 4 seater with two seats is fine. There is a point to be made there.

Like I said, I don't have a problem racing with you or Hans, but I would hate to see the class migrate itself away from "Side x Side".

 

[Crowdog]

No worries...I wasn't specifically responding to you. Mine, was just a general comment. JC...seriously think about racing with us at the Blue Water Oct 16-17. Not only would all of us like to run against your very nice rig, we would love to have you attend the meeting to discuss future rules. What say you ole wise one?

I can't make it Oct 16. Have plans to be in the dunes with the family. Plus I have two short course races in October to finish out the 2010 VORRA season.

I will think about picking a race or two in 2011 if the rules are changed to allow Commander 1000 and big bore Teryx/RZR in the pro class. But I am not so fond of the idea of one person writing the rules, doing tech, forcing us to join an association and also racing in the class.

Unless some things change for the UTV class in BITD, I will most likely stick to VORRA and jump in on a few SNORE races instead. And of course King of the Hammers.....

 

[deviant_illusion]

Guys this is an awesome discussion. I have been racing with BOR Racing and we are more of a working mans race club for the guys that want to race but dont have the budget to race BITD. As of now we only race an "A" and "B" class the b class being stock UTV minus the RZR-S. I attend board meetings and am kinda the UTV guy I guess so I started to write some new rules because we had a few Rhino guys a little hurt about having to race against twins. I my self would like to see 3 different classes. Bone stock where a guy with doors and window nets and a few other safety items can come give racing a shot in a stock UTV. Modified class more or less open but with some limitations and open. Any way in an effort to please the single cylinder crowd this is what I ended up with. we haven't started using them yet but hope to next race season with the growth we have it shouldn't be a problem. I would like to hear some feedback from you guys. Keep in mind we are not BITD and ATV,UTV and MC race at a different time then the trucks and buggies thats how we get away with more relax rules.

https://docs.google.com/fileview?id...zItOWRjZi00NjE0LTkyNzEtNGY2NTZhNDBlYjU2&hl=en

 

[the stripping shop]

i think a meeting in parker is perfect let everyone meet face to face and discuss this matter. In my opinion you cant have a weight limit. Just to let everyone know the articat 1000 never made weigh. It was always under weight. How do you enforce the weight rule at the end of the race. Because i can make my car weigh what ever i want at tech before race. The point is we don't want to go slower we want to go faster.Iam with jagged move the class to 1000cc see how many cars show up next year. I forgot to mention if you start splitting the class who is going to check all the cars for cc after the race or before the race to be put in your class.Just like everyone says you cant trust a fellow racer. I beleive the sr1 class is not the same as the SR1 lucas/weller. The guy that one bilek didn't even have an r1 in his car.Lets get the dealers/manufacters in this sport i only see polaris working with 1 team.yamaha 0 kawasaki 0 brp 0 articat 0 john deer 0 lets get these numbers up

 

[the stripping shop]

i forgot to mention after this weekend at lucas they will be thinking about making changes to because the SR1 class will have twice as many cars there then pro unlimited cars. I would say 5-6 pro unlimited to 10-15 Sr1. So how do you get the pro unlimited car count up by letting other manufactures in.

 

[dmurray]

This is a great thread, and good for everyone to be putting there two cents in. In my opinion, the key is for there to be a way to build the class so that more racers come out, and to keep the cost as reasonable as possible. More racers out competing drives the sport and will let the Mfg's know whats needed. At first we thought it would be a good idea for there to be two classes. 800 and under and 801 to 1000 because it would allow everyone to race what they have and most likely be competitive in the like class. But with further thought on the matter, how many <801 guys would there be? How many would go to the >800 class.? It seems the mfgs. are going to be going bigger and it would not require all the lesser cc guys to have to rebuild to compete. But then when you try to regulate this, we are talking about having to open motors, and much requlation that it takes the fun out of it. In addition with the smaller motors like the rhino 660 we have they require much more consistant work, and rebuilding compared to a less built two cylinder. In turn it keeps season cost down having a bigger motor working less hard. My over all opinion and conclusion is similar to Bill with Jagged that the class should just be opened up to the 1000 and let everyone come out and race. We all will eventually want to go faster and faster, who doesnt. This will reduce the policing and problems with weighing and opening up motors at every race, wich will lessen the guys who may otherwise come out to ride. Quick side question how may guys our there would come and race in bitd if the class was open to 1000cc? Any one with big bore kawi- or RZR's? or the Artic Cat or BRP? The key for us is for the class to grow, get more racers, and have fun. If its to complicated it takes part of the fun away. Also keep the cost low as possible- If the change is to be made it should be brought up early so teams can prepair for the 2011 or 2012 season accordingly. Maybe there can be a transition periord. This is my opinion and we currently are among the lowest cc in the class. I think its time for a formal role call on who we may add in the future if things are changed. See everyone in Parker!