Are UTV Racers Cheating at BITD??

[rockstarcustomz]

My comments are towards what the unlimited class will become potentially. Today it's not a concern as it is made up of engine swapped rhinos and such. Your RZR being the exception which is a Pro UTV. But should the bulk of the class ever start to gravitate towards an unlimiting of the rules and competing in that class I fear we will begin to see the decline in UTV racing.

You however for today should and will do well in the class but not because you are competing against lower or more equal racing budgets, but rather competing against a smaller car count and lesser machines. I say that with all due respect to the SR1 guys but we all know the SR1s and other Unlimited machines have yet to ever compete with the Pro UTV class in terms of either car count or speed. I'm sure one day they might figure it out but we have seen them for years and I have yet to see one of them ever rocket off the line. More times then not the SR1s stall at the start and seem to always be struggling around the course. They sound great and I've always been a fan of the platform for short course. On paper those Unlimiteds should be able to wax a Pro UTV but they don't and haven't which was why I made the comment about you reverse sandbagging. It was a joke to make since you have a stock UTV engine and a pro UTV chassis competing in what is an "unlimited" class.

If the Unlimited class were to morph into what an Unlimited class actually is in say the truck or buggy realm then that's when you will naturally see budgets swell.

Joey, I knew exactly what you meant. And I didn't take the sand bagging statement seriously. We said something similar when we did it. I am excited to be able to do some really awesome stuff with shocks now though because to me hp doesn't matter. Its all about suspension which I have been lacking recently.

 

[facteryfmf]

Good Call, and thank you.

No benefit at all? What's 70+ vehicle at $25 fee each? ! ($30 but I believe $5 goes to a points fund)

How about a profit of $1750 at the mint. How many vehicles are at parker, and laughlin? ! No other class pays a fee for tech! !!

 

[Rusty5150]

This thread is not about the Can-Am turbo. I am personally very happy they won. I think we need more of a battle between OEM's. Its been a one sided race for years.

This thread is about rumors of people cheating with big motors.



UTV-15 ENGINE LOCATION AND DISPLACEMENT:
All UTV classes Maximum engine displacement is 1000cc. UTV Pro Production
vehicles must use stock engine cases and cylinder head. Engine displacement and
location may be checked by UTV Racing Association at any time. The UTV
Racing Association reserves the right to mark or seal engine blocks prior to an
event and confiscate engines after the race. Confiscated engines may not be
returned.

So I have some basic questions. Can the mods listed below be done without breaking the rules?

1. High compression stock bore pistons?
2. Port and polished stock head?
3. Increase valve size?
4. Change cams?
5. Modify ECU?
6. Bored throttle body?
7. Change valve springs?

 

[JoeyD23]

I've been reading here a long time bud before I ever made a profile. I don't represent no one but myself. Don't know any one on here. I know what the thread was made for. I'm just rubbing salt in the wound. Guy wants to accuse someone of cheating with misinformation. I know you guys want to make some changes and what not. So hey bury the guy that helped get you guys get where you are. I don't race in the desert. Don't care if it's Can Am or Polaris. Just hate people being chicken sht and sitting behind a keyboard making accusations. Do you need some more stringent tech rules? Sounds like probably. Should Cory not be the man anymore? Wasn't a problem last couple years he's been racing a Maverick. Hell if you guys have a problem, call the supposed cheaters out. Not be a pussy and talk about them behind there backs. But I'm a no one and don't know crap, so I'll just go back to my corner and continue to read. Carry on

Once again, if you had been reading here for as long as you claim then you would also know that the situation with Cory has been a hot topic for many seasons. This isn't the first time this has been discussed.

You seem to want to group the entire class into thinking they all thought S3 cheated. I for one never thought they cheated and I still don't. I know many here feel the same way. One guy here thought they did based on hear say. You sure are pretty defensive.

 

[COGNITO]

This thread is not about the Can-Am turbo. I am personally very happy they won. I think we need more of a battle between OEM's. Its been a one sided race for years.

This thread is about rumors of people cheating with big motors.



UTV-15 ENGINE LOCATION AND DISPLACEMENT:
All UTV classes Maximum engine displacement is 1000cc. UTV Pro Production
vehicles must use stock engine cases and cylinder head. Engine displacement and
location may be checked by UTV Racing Association at any time. The UTV
Racing Association reserves the right to mark or seal engine blocks prior to an
event and confiscate engines after the race. Confiscated engines may not be
returned.

So I have some basic questions. Can the mods listed below be done without breaking the rules?

1. High compression stock bore pistons?
2. Port and polished stock head?
3. Increase valve size?
4. Change cams?
5. Modify ECU?
6. Bored throttle body?
7. Change valve springs?

Rusty those mods are legal as long as it is not a turbo car. Turbo car can do none of that I believe

 

[Whattha]

Addict racing engines!!
I made the post about this. It is less about people cheating and more about the fact that there is no way of checking properly for it.
Really tech needs to be after the race and make sure that there is no opportunity to change something. I personally feel like there are fast guys and slower guys. The slower guys are always bitching about the fact that johnny is cheating or that Justin changed out his engine.
Really?!?! If you are not cheating,
Push for the same thing the top 5 to be teched immediately after the race. By someone not racing!! That's the point not that guys are cheating but that people are bitching about it. Stop the bitching by making this class legit and doing an after reaching tech like every other forms of racing do.

As for calling out a cheating team I think it is pretty obvious who I know has not followed the rules by the post I made later with the utv-15 rule about turbos.
If there was a real tech and not an inspector that is probably cheating himself with said ecu reflash RJ Anderson probably would have won the mint 400 this year. Too late now that car is back in louisana. Ecu flash and all.

Joey I never said the class. Not one time. WTF do I have to be defensive about? I have no dog in this fight. Just someone from the outside looking in. I've agreed with you guys. What I dont agree with is someone calling race team(s) cheaters with no proof. If said gentleman had a problem with ANY team he should have made said problems known at the race when the team(s) could have defended themselves. I agree that you shouldn't have a guy racing in the same series that he techs for. I'm just asking questions for my own knowledge because Im curious by nature. Hence why I asked why it wasn't to huge of an issue Cory teching prior to the turbo winning. I'm not trying to rub any of you guys wrong but if I have it is what it is. I'm gonna call a spade a spade.

 

[JoeyD23]

So to get back on track.

It appears no one thinks anyone is cheating, or if they do they do not have facts and are not willing to call the other person out.

This was sort of the point I was trying to prove. Either some facts would come out or we would see that assumptions and speculation carry about as much weight as you taking a dump in your hand.

I don't think anyone any is flat out cheating. At least not at the top of the class.

I am curious though as to why Cory told Bill Schueler there was a vote when no one says they sat in on a vote in regards to the Turbo being allowed to race in the Pro UTV class. That's interesting to me. That should have been a class decision. Anyone who can't see the POTENTIAL conflict of interest when your tech director is making decisions surrounding an OEM he is sponsored by and races for is crazy. I know Cory is an honest man and a very good man, but that reads as a huge problem from the outside.

 

[JoeyD23]

Joey I never said the class. Not one time. WTF do I have to be defensive about? I have no dog in this fight. Just someone from the outside looking in. I've agreed with you guys. What I dont agree with is someone calling race team(s) cheaters with no proof. If said gentleman had a problem with ANY team he should have made said problems known at the race when the team(s) could have defended themselves. I agree that you shouldn't have a guy racing in the same series that he techs for. I'm just asking questions for my own knowledge because Im curious by nature. Hence why I asked why it wasn't to huge of an issue Cory teching prior to the turbo winning. I'm not trying to rub any of you guys wrong but if I have it is what it is. I'm gonna call a spade a spade.

Fair enough.

I think we agree then on everything here. Sorry for taking it the wrong way.

I love having the S3 boys in BITD. Not a nicer bunch at the track then them. I don't want their win to be tarnished. They are playing by the rules that were given to them. They stayed the course and took home a win. I am very happy for them. They tested and came out and did things the right way and it paid off for them.

 

[goMRgo]

Takes 10 minutes, just dont spin the motor backwards unless you have a manual cam chain tensioner.

These are the exact tools Cory used at BWDC i.e., the first BITD race of the year. I noticed that when our car was checked there was a clearance issue that prevented one of the tools from being able to go in the port absolutely straight up/down. Wouldn't that affect the measurement? I assume other vehicles may have had clearance issues also.

 

[a.p.s.]

Whatha
My customers are Ok with the fact that we are making progress. I however am tired of hearing from 65 racers under the top 5 keep saying the top guys are cheating. And there is no way to prove or disprove it because there is no post race tech!! I don't know if anyone in the top of the class is cheating or not.
You know why that is?
Because there is no post race tech!!
You know why that is?
Because the tech inspection team is still racing!!

That's the whole issue I am trying to make. Not that guys are cheating.
The rules we have in place can not and are not being enfrced.
That's the change that needs to be made. Move the class to BITD tech with a utv embasador. Have a post race tech, if displacement is good and turbo checks...Sweet.
If not then your out and the talk of cheaters stops.

 

[a.p.s.]

And to be clear!!!

I have no problem with the turbos winning I truly think most people expected that eventually!!

We race with a turbo but want to turn it up on the rzr so we went unlimited!!
Would like to see the unlimited class TRUELY unlimited cause what if I want to put a 1200 cc rzr engine in and race it na?
Or what If I want to take my proven 1083 motor that makes great power and run it in that class. Right now I can not. I have to turbo a 1000cc limit.

 

[JoeyD23]

For all the NEWBS: http://www.utvunderground.com/forum...l-the-turbo-maverick-affect-utv-racing.15968/

 

[Queen Racing]

Its funny you call me out! As for me racing, I have a car solely for testing purposes! My car is a tool for my teammates. I try all kinds of crazy stuff with it, if I find something that works and I can prove it reliable. I will give it to my racers. Ask any one of the guys who race for me and see what they think about me having a car and maybe doing a race or two here and there.. They love it, Im not asking them to test anything that I have not proved already and risking a possible failure! Ive also never even built a piston that is over 93mm for the 1000 motor anyway, ask CP! My suggestion to you Jim, if you want to catch up, get off the keyboard and get back on the dyno!

 

[warlock]

No benefit at all? What's 70+ vehicle at $25 fee each? ! ($30 but I believe $5 goes to a points fund)

How about a profit of $1750 at the mint. How many vehicles are at parker, and laughlin? ! No other class pays a fee for tech! !!

A $25 per car FEE LOL. No kidding.. LMAO I would not get out of bed for that, to have to look at and here all of the crying from everyone. How many teams have showed up over the years and were Failed but given a fix it ticket and allowed to race instead of being sent packing. Im sure theres 1 or maybe 2 LOL.
I get it and I see the issue everyone has so like they say put up or shut up. I don't see you or anyone else offering up to do it. LOL Hey Justin Cory is

 

[a.p.s.]

Mark I never called you out. And have nothing but respect for you. I as an engine builder will not race against my erasers you can do whatever you want and I don't care what you do if you race if you cheat as long as we have a tech inspection that I'll find it great if you don't cheat and you go through tech and you didn't cheat perfect that's what we're after

 

[jaggedx]

To my knowledge, no one has ever been tuned away from racing.

 

[Ignore Amos]

2015 Can-Am Maverick ECU rule
Wed, 03/18/2015 - 10:33 — Admin
There has been some questions about the ECU flashing on the Maverick Turbo. The way the rule is written racers must use the stock ECU. The is no way for a ECU reflash to be inspected and confirmed, therefore the rule does not say that reflashing is not allowed. S3 and Desert Toyz are using the stock ECU as delivered from the factoy, the tire size has been adjusted to eliminate the speed limiter. No other modifications have been done to the ECU. Verification of a stock ECU will be made before and after each race.


Just off the UTVRA site... so is Cory saying that a flashed ECU is legal... Im confused

 

[warlock]

To my knowledge, no one has ever been tuned away from racing.

That's right Cory hasn't told anyone to go home cause the car isn't right. He gives them a race and they fix it later. If he is getting so rich off the Fees then I would assume a lot of people should be fighting for his job. LMAO I don't see anyone stepping up and now with almost 70 golf carts to inspect and its time consuming as hell I bet money that BITD doesn't want the job either. Maybe BITD will take it over raise the tech fee to $100 per car to hire people to speed the process up. Then Post race impound and a $150 fee to clean the motor up so nothing can get inside and damage it and do a inspection of the top 5 cars. Take $25 from the fees and put it towards a purse to be shared at the end of season by the top 5 point leaders. Just a thought like a California Politician. LOL Mo Money.

 

[a.p.s.]

Ecu as delivered from factory would have a stock map and thus a reflash would not be as delivered from factory.
But hey there is another reason that Cory should not be the o ly guy that makes and enforces the rules especially those directly pertaining to his race car.

 

[warlock]

2015 Can-Am Maverick ECU rule
Wed, 03/18/2015 - 10:33 — Admin
There has been some questions about the ECU flashing on the Maverick Turbo. The way the rule is written racers must use the stock ECU. The is no way for a ECU reflash to be inspected and confirmed, therefore the rule does not say that reflashing is not allowed. S3 and Desert Toyz are using the stock ECU as delivered from the factoy, the tire size has been adjusted to eliminate the speed limiter. No other modifications have been done to the ECU. Verification of a stock ECU will be made before and after each race.


Just off the UTVRA site... so is Cory saying that a flashed ECU is legal... Im confused

I have not read anything about it, But the way I see things is like this Production parts not changed out but being able to work with what you have from the Factory just like the consumer gets at the dealer and that's that. Otherwise I would say to be fair no team can mod or change the computer.