Are UTV Racers Cheating at BITD??

[NIKAL]

Easy big fella! Just to be clear here the majority of posts by racers here have expressed their respect for you and your contribution to this sport. There is no question that you have done more for this sport than almost anyone, positive things! As for the forum statements ruining the class, probably not, these forums are just a way for people to rant and rave and we all know that. Fact is , the class is growing in spite of all the things people bitch about on the forums.
As for addressing things on the Internet? I understand not wanting to spar with argumentative parties who just want to agitate.
however, perhaps engaging in some of the constructive threads could help communicate your reasoning while listening to the ideas and concerns of the racers.
This could actually solve some of the issues.

As I stated I do feel that the utv class could be absorbed into BITD with the other classes. This does not necessarily mean that Cory should not be involved. Cory still has more knowledge of the class than anyone else but perhaps taking the role of class represetitive would be more constructive for the class.

Pretty sure you are still reading!

Here is what I said back in December when the new 2015 rules were coming out. Its pretty much what JaggedX is saying & thinking.

I 110% agree and this is why I have made comments about the Race Tech/Director racing. Its a huge conflict of interest and should be dealt with. IMO the current tech/director should keep racing as that is why he is here, and its my understanding that he took the Director role when the class was new and needed a leader. But the class has grown and its time to have someone impartial running Tech for the better of the sport. There should either be a UTV specific Tech Director, or the Race Series Tech Director should start handling the UTV class, as they handle all the other 4 wheel classes.

I'm still a strong supporter of Class Rep's who are the direct go to between the Racer & the Promoter. This could be a position the current UTV Tech Director fills if they so chose to stay in the loop. But a class Rep is not there to make or enforce the rules, they are the voice for the Class when the class has a concern or wants to consider a rule change. IMO all major rule changes should go to a vote and only those who are registered members of the series can vote.

 

[rockstarcustomz]

Unlimited Class. I personally am hesitant with it, because like Rusty mentioned, we have been down the road at Lucas Oil and it ruined the class when it became a money game. No OEM will support a UTV that doesn't look like what they roll off the show room floor. In addition, Unlimited means you better have an unlimited budget because once the envelope gets pushed there is nothing to stop it from being pushed further and further. The cost rises, the car counts go down. Side note: Does Lacretia have a built engine? What makes her RZR unlimited. I meant to ask her.

Thats like reverse Sand Bagging! lol

Well played Lacretia, well played...

No I don't have a built motor. I do have plans for unlimited suspension. I moved for business reasons. My sponsors need podiums.I also discussed this option with my Polaris contact before the move was made. The cars I'm racing against have 50 more horse power than mine. I know I can beat them because my team builds me a solid car and I am a consistent driver. The "unlimited budgets" are all racing in the Pro Production class. I do not have the budget to race with them period. They should be in the unlimited class but they aren't, so I am. Call it what you will, but I am now a 3 time Mint champion. I am the opposite of cheating, I am "reverse sandbagging" In Joey's words. I call it a smart move for my sponsors and my team.

 

[Bajaxp]

No I don't have a built motor. I do have plans for unlimited suspension. I moved for business reasons. My sponsors need podiums.I also discussed this option with my Polaris contact before the move was made. The cars I'm racing against have 50 more horse power than mine. I know I can beat them because my team builds me a solid car and I am a consistent driver. The "unlimited budgets" are all racing in the Pro Production class. I do not have the budget to race with them period. They should be in the unlimited class but they aren't, so I am. Call it what you will, but I am now a 3 time Mint champion. I am the opposite of cheating, I am "reverse sandbagging" In Joey's words. I call it a smart move for my sponsors and my team.

Lacretia name one Polaris team that has 50 more horsepower than you. Please.

 

[NIKAL]

I didn't know that we were all saying S3 cheated. Green jacket Gold jacket! Who gives a shit that a can am won. Besides Craig.

Same here! I thought the suspected engine cheater was someone who was boring their engines over 1000cc or doing other engine mods that are not legal. At least that is how this thread seemed to start.

Lest face it the S3 Can Am was a 3rd place car before two other teams (RZR's) had issues on the last lap. Only then did they take the win. So while a win is a win and they are to be congratulated for it, its not like they dominated and made the rest look silly out there. Only if the turbo cars start dominating the Pro class, then you might look at moving them to their own class. But right now I dont see them dominating, just because they won one race.

 

[Bajaxp]

Lacretia name one Polaris team that has 50 more horsepower than you. Please.

Crickets...didn't think so. Most top teams are stock or mild-mod-stock, meaning they gained 20-25 hp and are now struggling with belt, transmission, front diff and CV issues. Truth..

 

[Bajaxp]

Same here! I thought the suspected engine cheater was someone who was boring their engines over 1000cc or doing other engine mods that are not legal. At least that is how this thread seemed to start.

Lest face it the S3 Can Am was a 3rd place car before two other teams (RZR's) had issues on the last lap. Only then did they take the win. So while a win is a win and they are to be congratulated for it, its not like they dominated and made the rest look silly out there. Only if the turbo cars start dominating the Pro class, then you might look at moving them to their own class. But right now I dont see them dominating, just because they won one race.

Todd, the point I made was that it is virtually impossible to police turbo mods as the most significant gains are in super techy software.

 

[Bajaxp]

BTW...the UTVRA was founded by Mike Lasher (now SxS parts distributor), Mike Orchard (OMF wheels) and Cory Sappington (Desert ToyZ). They had a great vision, but one of the guys couldn't see eye to eye with the other two. The rest is history....

 

[rockstarcustomz]

Lacretia name one Polaris team that has 50 more horsepower than you. Please.

Crickets...didn't think so. Most top teams are stock or mild-mod-stock, meaning they gained 20-25 hp and are now struggling with belt, transmission, front diff and CV issues. Truth..

Matt, I'm racing in the Unlimited Pro class. The cars I'm racing are R1's and an Apex. They do have 50 more Hp than I do. I'm not referring to the Production cars.

 

[JoeyD23]

Lacretia name one Polaris team that has 50 more horsepower than you. Please.

Pretty sure she was referring to SR1s she is racing against.

 

[facteryfmf]

Same here! I thought the suspected engine cheater was someone who was boring their engines over 1000cc or doing other engine mods that are not legal. At least that is how this thread seemed to start.

Lest face it the S3 Can Am was a 3rd place car before two other teams (RZR's) had issues on the last lap. Only then did they take the win. So while a win is a win and they are to be congratulated for it, its not like they dominated and made the rest look silly out there. Only if the turbo cars start dominating the Pro class, then you might look at moving them to their own class. But right now I dont see them dominating, just because they won one race.

Amen. we ain't skeered. Some others might need to be though.

 

[JoeyD23]

No I don't have a built motor. I do have plans for unlimited suspension. I moved for business reasons. My sponsors need podiums.I also discussed this option with my Polaris contact before the move was made. The cars I'm racing against have 50 more horse power than mine. I know I can beat them because my team builds me a solid car and I am a consistent driver. The "unlimited budgets" are all racing in the Pro Production class. I do not have the budget to race with them period. They should be in the unlimited class but they aren't, so I am. Call it what you will, but I am now a 3 time Mint champion. I am the opposite of cheating, I am "reverse sandbagging" In Joey's words. I call it a smart move for my sponsors and my team.

My comments are towards what the unlimited class will become potentially. Today it's not a concern as it is made up of engine swapped rhinos and such. Your RZR being the exception which is a Pro UTV. But should the bulk of the class ever start to gravitate towards an unlimiting of the rules and competing in that class I fear we will begin to see the decline in UTV racing.

You however for today should and will do well in the class but not because you are competing against lower or more equal racing budgets, but rather competing against a smaller car count and lesser machines. I say that with all due respect to the SR1 guys but we all know the SR1s and other Unlimited machines have yet to ever compete with the Pro UTV class in terms of either car count or speed. I'm sure one day they might figure it out but we have seen them for years and I have yet to see one of them ever rocket off the line. More times then not the SR1s stall at the start and seem to always be struggling around the course. They sound great and I've always been a fan of the platform for short course. On paper those Unlimiteds should be able to wax a Pro UTV but they don't and haven't which was why I made the comment about you reverse sandbagging. It was a joke to make since you have a stock UTV engine and a pro UTV chassis competing in what is an "unlimited" class.

If the Unlimited class were to morph into what an Unlimited class actually is in say the truck or buggy realm then that's when you will naturally see budgets swell.

 

[Whattha]

I'll just leave this here.

 

[JoeyD23]

View attachment 11016

I'll just leave this here.

If you think this thread is about west coast desert racers complaining about S3 you're wrong. If you weren't so new you would know this discussion about the Turbo entering the Pro UTV class has been happening for a while. It wouldn't have mattered if you guys were from Africa, this was going to happen at some point. So don't make this an us vs them thing. The s3 crew has a good reputation. They don't need someone ruining that for them to the race community. I've seen it happen when a fan boy or team member comes into a thread and starts making the actual drivers and owners look bad.

You guys won a big race, celebrate it and enjoy it and then pack it away and get ready for the next one. Dustin has the target painted on him now. He isn't the new guy no one knows about anymore. The race season is just getting started! It's going to be a good one.

 

[Whattha]

If you think this thread is about west coast desert racers complaining about S3 you're wrong. If you weren't so new you would know this discussion about the Turbo entering the Pro UTV class has been happening for a while. It wouldn't have mattered if you guys were from Africa, this was going to happen at some point. So don't make this an us vs them thing. The s3 crew has a good reputation. They don't need someone ruining that for them to the race community. I've seen it happen when a fan boy or team member comes into a thread and starts making the actual drivers and owners look bad.

You guys won a big race, celebrate it and enjoy it and then pack it away and get ready for the next one. Dustin has the target painted on him now. He isn't the new guy no one knows about anymore. The race season is just getting started! It's going to be a good one.

I've been reading here a long time bud before I ever made a profile. I don't represent no one but myself. Don't know any one on here. I know what the thread was made for. I'm just rubbing salt in the wound. Guy wants to accuse someone of cheating with misinformation. I know you guys want to make some changes and what not. So hey bury the guy that helped get you guys get where you are. I don't race in the desert. Don't care if it's Can Am or Polaris. Just hate people being chicken sht and sitting behind a keyboard making accusations. Do you need some more stringent tech rules? Sounds like probably. Should Cory not be the man anymore? Wasn't a problem last couple years he's been racing a Maverick. Hell if you guys have a problem, call the supposed cheaters out. Not be a pussy and talk about them behind there backs. But I'm a no one and don't know crap, so I'll just go back to my corner and continue to read. Carry on

 

[warlock]

But if you were following Jim's Facebook page post ...Cory said he is the ruler and he was the one who
Made this sport.And nothing is going to change that.or at BITD. We'll BITD is down the street from me

Plus other racers on Jim's post are saying the same thing time for a new Prez

Well then you take over the Pain in the Ass Job that Corey does and do it for all of these years with no benefit to him. Im sure he would have enjoyed spending time with his race team and Family preparing for the race or just sitting on his Ass doing nothing relaxing and now you come along and decide its time for him to go. And say he is biased cause he races for Can Am. He stays the course and he is honest as the day is long. I don't see any one of you stepping in to help do his Shitty thankless job.

 

[NIKAL]

Also I have read multiple times that if you suspect someone cheating you should drop $500 and file your protest.

That is such a wrong way of doing things. That is the series way of passing the buck and allowing them to not do their jobs. I have been in this sport longer then 95% on this site and I can assure you the self policing / filing protests system has never worked well, and has only caused more animosity in the class. For one, no one wants to look like the whiner or pussy who needs to file a protest to win. And the fact is they should not have too. A proper pre tech and post tech should be done and catch most performance enhancing issues, and if rumors appear about a specific item or area on the cars then those areas are also inspected. Plus how many times does the alleged cheating come out hours or days later? The fact is a protest needs to be filed prior to the timed end of the race. So for example at the Mint 400 you would have had to write and file your official protest before 5pm.

How the Protest system started and what it was for is when you saw a course or race violation back when racing did not have all the eye balls, electronics and so on in the sport. For example years ago the Herbst Truggy broke down and the helicopter landed to service and bring parts. This is illegal and Fortin Sr. saw the copter land and service the truggy. He radioed in the protest against the Herbst. This is something Race Operations would not have seen or been able to control. That is what the Protest was originally designed for.

How the Protest system does not work and makes enemies in the class is when the Cook Bros would finish in the top 5 and they would bring a templet to the finish line and check everyone who finished in front of them to see if their rear fender wells on the 5/1600 was within the rules. If not they would protest them to get a better finishing position. Or a few years ago when the RPM Spec TT finished 1st with a borrowed wheel which caused the truck to be an inch wider then per the rules.

 

[warlock]

82

Whats the top speed of the XP1k 4 seater stock 70 or so. How does one reach 85+ stock. Im sure a computer flash helps it. Boy has the Turbo ruffled feathers LMAO. this is a Production class Hehehehe, Polaris better get something out there soon. I hope them S3 Guys continue to do Awesome and everyone can keep on crying Turbo this and Turbo that. Them Boys put in some serious test time and that is overlooked . I hope they test even harder and work harder at being so much better that they are the Team to beat .
Maybe Can Am will make a Desert Edition with a huge high flow Turbo and that will alow them to run a bigger Turbo and really let it Rip. That little Turbo doesn't have a lot of room for more boost and when it does it turns to hot air and doesn't really perform all that great on the big end. So its not the Turbo Girls its a solid car. Johnnys car broke because its a Polaris and the Mint 400 is hard as Hell on stuff Period.

 

[Joanne Gonzales]

But not on a UTV platform ... Jim has customers that want to keep the Polaris motor but want to race at 100 mph in the Pro Utv Unlimited class

Mike, ask Jim about the drive shafts. Meant to handle max speed of 74. How folks think that there is something safe about going faster is beyond me. Unless there is a drive shaft change-up that I would like to know about. Just say'in.

 

[Joanne Gonzales]

Something is brewing at BITD.


1st Race - 2 Lap Unofficial Results
1st Race - 3 Lap Unofficial Results, not posted at this time, being reviewed
2nd Race - 3 Lap Unofficial Results, updated
Time Credits - 2nd Race Credit, these are not penalties, they are time credits

It's sad...we got jammed because our IRC tracker was not installed properly. Another beef is....who points who in which direction to get the IRC system checked. Was the transponder set up? What a shame...

 

[Joanne Gonzales]

Well then you take over the Pain in the Ass Job that Corey does and do it for all of these years with no benefit to him. Im sure he would have enjoyed spending time with his race team and Family preparing for the race or just sitting on his Ass doing nothing relaxing and now you come along and decide its time for him to go. And say he is biased cause he races for Can Am. He stays the course and he is honest as the day is long. I don't see any one of you stepping in to help do his Shitty thankless job.

Good Call, and thank you.