Are UTV Racers Cheating at BITD??

[Rusty5150]

Shame on all you guys!!!!! You are the ones who will ruin this class with your statements. Who wants to join a class with a bunch of complainers accusing others of cheating!! and me of noteching UTV properly. No one is cheating in BITD. You posts will ruin this class !!! The internet sucks!!! I will no longer be viewing the UTV Underground site. I will no longer address any issues on the internet, if you want to give your opinion to me you will need to call or email me. I have gone out of my way in one way or another to help every one of you BITD racers. I'm sure this thread would not be here if Johnny would have won. Flame on!!!

Rad. I have no dog in this fight. I'm my world I want everyone to cheat. The faster the better. Faster Race Cars = More Bangers!!! Huge jumps, 100mph all day.

3 people comment in a negative manner about you and the tech process and you freak out "I am taking my ball and going home" is the wrong attitude. Many more people are reading this and forming opinions. What opinion would you form if you read 6 pages of customers talking back and forth about a service only to have the service provider throw a fit. How would the others classes in BITD handle this? Provide a solution, what are rules without a method to enforce them? So here is what I got from this.

1. Top 5 Bore and Stoke test after the race:

2. Can-Am Turbo tech: create a plan to verify machines are in fact using stock Un-Flashed ECU. (Can Can-Am add a seal from the ECM to the connector) if the seal is broken you fail tech.

3. Look at options to expand tech. More people, hire a neutral inspector, ask for help from the racers. Ask for 2 volunteers for each race to help. Mix it up each round.


GOLF CART DORK.

 

[a.p.s.]

Thank you rusty.
Everyone I am sorry if I hurt feelings or pissed people off.
Here is the deal I have no issues with my engines. As the racers and other issues have recently kept me from the top spot.

It all started Saturday after the race when I was asked(and I told him already) How does johnny stay in front of a turbo car for 90%of the race? And I heard that s3 had a reflashed ecu.

Here is the real deal. If the top 5 were to go through a post race tech, those people would not be able to say crap.
I was just told that Cory did a post race tech on the s3 car and they checked out.

There is still a problem with tech and it needs to be resolved.

Rusty hit it on the head.

To the guys from S3, I apologise that I was wrong in the information I was given and passed on.
Let's get the tech issues fixed and move forward.

 

[Bajaxp]

I agree... if no turbo mav podium, there still to this day would be no debate... that's absolutely the truth, every other team BLEW IT OFF stating how it's driver this and driver that and how turbo would make no difference and it's more to do with reliability and on and on. Now look at the backlash AFTER the fact.

AAaaaaaaaa....wrong, we had the debate long ago. Way before a 'win.' Again the win wasn't due to the turbo, it was because of a great drive. The debate, is separate. How do you police the flash....aka hexadecimal coding of a turbo?

 

[Bajaxp]

Rad. I have no dog in this fight. I'm my world I want everyone to cheat. The faster the better. Faster Race Cars = More Bangers!!! Huge jumps, 100mph all day.

3 people comment in a negative manner about you and the tech process and you freak out "I am taking my ball and going home" is the wrong attitude. Many more people are reading this and forming opinions. What opinion would you form if you read 6 pages of customers talking back and forth about a service only to have the service provider throw a fit. How would the others classes in BITD handle this? Provide a solution, what are rules without a method to enforce them? So here is what I got from this.

1. Top 5 Bore and Stoke test after the race:

2. Can-Am Turbo tech: create a plan to verify machines are in fact using stock Un-Flashed ECU. (Can Can-Am add a seal from the ECM to the connector) if the seal is broken you fail tech.

3. Look at options to expand tech. More people, hire a neutral inspector, ask for help from the racers. Ask for 2 volunteers for each race to help. Mix it up each round.


GOLF CART DORK.

Great post Rusty...but Can-Am sealing their own ECU's? Bwaaaaahahahaa. They are French Canadian, history tells the rest.

 

[COGNITO]

And as far as our top speed thats simple, the Maverick comes with a 82mph speed limiter with 28" tires. Every factory built can-am can have the tire size changed in the computer by any dealership, simply put a 25" tire in the computer and run a 30" tire on the car and you have a car that is capable of 95mph with zero performance modifications. Even with a turbo motor we are still slower than some in the class, infact in the Mint we only got above 78mph a couple of times.
Whats sad is no one cared about the turbo Maverick until the Mint and now its ...

Shane

Just curious, is having the dealer change the tire size, mean having to flash the tire size in the ecu?

 

[Rusty5150]

Great post Rusty...but Can-Am sealing their own ECU's? Bwaaaaahahahaa. They are French Canadian, history tells the rest.

Haha, true. Just tossing ideas on the wall.


GOLF CART DORK.

 

[Whattha]

Just curious, is having the dealer change the tire size, mean having to flash the tire size in the ecu?

Can-Am uses a program called Buds to access the ECU. When you take your car into the shop it is hooked into buds much the same way your car would be at the dealer when you get service. They are very limited on what they can change. Can't change A/F ratios or anything like that. Tire size is one of the things they can change. As well as the welcome message when you start up your machine. They can not make any performance upgrades. The Can Am ECU is the hardest ECU to crack. Took years to be able to do the stuff they do now.

 

[Kalop]

AAaaaaaaaa....wrong, we had the debate long ago. Way before a 'win.' Again the win wasn't due to the turbo, it was because of a great drive. The debate, is separate. How do you police the flash....aka hexadecimal coding of a turbo?

You can't. Which leads back to the question... why have rules you can't (or won't) enforce ?

 

[a.p.s.]

Ok so now we all know that it needs to be fixed let's figure out how to fix it!!

I will ask first: can the issues be resolved with Cory continuing to run tech and race?

 

[T-wrecks]

Rad. I have no dog in this fight.


3 people comment in a negative manner about you and the tech process and you freak out "I am taking my ball and going home" is the wrong attitude. Many more people are reading this and forming opinions. What opinion would you form if you read 6 pages of customers talking back and forth about a service only to have the service provider throw a fit. How would the others classes in BITD handle this? Provide a solution, what are rules without a method to enforce them?

GOLF CART DORK.

Which is exactly why racing a UTV doesn't appeal to me....have to build a new car every year to keep up with the latest greatest and with the lack of tech or perceived lack of tech that I have read over the years. Every time I've read about someone complaining about Corey and his lack of tech he responds with a childish rant instead of factual based answers or an explanation. Always the @#$% you attitude from him. I will never race against a competitor who is also the tech inspector.

 

[Whattha]

Are the Polaris cars allowed to run a "chip" or programmer per the rules?

 

[a.p.s.]

Yes but they are not turbos.
If there is a turbo polaris in the field it is in unlimited.

 

[jaggedx]

Shame on all you guys!!!!! You are the ones who will ruin this class with your statements. Who wants to join a class with a bunch of complainers accusing others of cheating!! and me of noteching UTV properly. No one is cheating in BITD. You posts will ruin this class !!! The internet sucks!!! I will no longer be viewing the UTV Underground site. I will no longer address any issues on the internet, if you want to give your opinion to me you will need to call or email me. I have gone out of my way in one way or another to help every one of you BITD racers. I'm sure this thread would not be here if Johnny would have won. Flame on!!!

Easy big fella! Just to be clear here the majority of posts by racers here have expressed their respect for you and your contribution to this sport. There is no question that you have done more for this sport than almost anyone, positive things! As for the forum statements ruining the class, probably not, these forums are just a way for people to rant and rave and we all know that. Fact is , the class is growing in spite of all the things people bitch about on the forums.
As for addressing things on the Internet? I understand not wanting to spar with argumentative parties who just want to agitate.
however, perhaps engaging in some of the constructive threads could help communicate your reasoning while listening to the ideas and concerns of the racers.
This could actually solve some of the issues.

As I stated I do feel that the utv class could be absorbed into BITD with the other classes. This does not necessarily mean that Cory should not be involved. Cory still has more knowledge of the class than anyone else but perhaps taking the role of class represetitive would be more constructive for the class.

Pretty sure you are still reading!

 

[a.p.s.]

That is a good point jagged.

He is a good embasador for the sport. But the conflict of interest is where the problem lies with most of the racers I have talked with over the last few days.

 

[Whattha]

Yes but they are not turbos.
If there is a turbo polaris in the field it is in unlimited.

So a Polaris car can run a programmer, head work, cams, anything as long as it stays 1000cc, but a Can-Am can't do any of those things? If the Mav makes any motor modifications they can't adjust air/fuel trims, or anything like that because they have a turbo?

 

[a.p.s.]

Right the rules state
Utv-15
Production UTV class vehicles with factory turbocharged engines must remain
stock as delivered from the factory. No changes or modifications are allowed, with
the exception of the air cleaner, header pipe, exhaust pipe, muffler and clutch. All
engine parts must remain stock. No aftermarket ECU’s. No aftermarket fuel controllers. All electronic engine management parts must remain stock as delivered
from the factory. Turbocharged engines must be inspected and sealed prior to
racing. Do not wait till tech for this inspection

 

[a.p.s.]

If they do ny thing other than that listed they should move to the unlimited class.

 

[Whattha]

Right the rules state
Utv-15
Production UTV class vehicles with factory turbocharged engines must remain
stock as delivered from the factory. No changes or modifications are allowed, with
the exception of the air cleaner, header pipe, exhaust pipe, muffler and clutch. All
engine parts must remain stock. No aftermarket ECU’s. No aftermarket fuel controllers. All electronic engine management parts must remain stock as delivered
from the factory. Turbocharged engines must be inspected and sealed prior to
racing. Do not wait till tech for this inspection

Haha I'm done. 121 crank HP to free reigns Polaris motor build. Just seems like your customers are unhappy bud. So instead of you guys doing what you need to do to get on the podium, let's just call all the fast guys out. Haven't heard Johnny or any of the other top teams complaining. Just my $.02

 

[COGNITO]

So a Polaris car can run a programmer, head work, cams, anything as long as it stays 1000cc, but a Can-Am can't do any of those things? If the Mav makes any motor modifications they can't adjust air/fuel trims, or anything like that because they have a turbo?

A non turbo can am can do all the same things as a non turbo Polaris

 

[jaggedx]

One engine builder on Facebook thinks so.

If there are guys cheating they are doing a good job of not letting me or any of my team know. Then again, if you are cheating I don't want to know! lol

So lets do this, call the cheaters out, but only with facts. Lets clean the class up now before any problem gets too big to handle. I for one am sure there is some rule bending and maybe even some breaking taking place, but I am also in belief that the class as a whole plays fair.

So whats the deal? What do you think? If someone is cheating WILL YOU call them out publicly, or just whine and cry about it AFTER they win?

Btw guys? this really deteriorated quickly!