How will the Turbo Maverick affect UTV racing?

[JoeyD23]

I'm going off of my faded memory here, so no nitpicking! (and I'm not inferring that the new turbo Mav's be allowed into the pro 1900 class as of yet.)

With that being said, given Can-am's current roster of teams (us included), I don't believe that the 10% more horsepower that the new Mav's possess over the RZR's will make one iota of difference in the finishing order, wins, losses or otherwise against the current efforts of the Polaris camp. Didn't we have that close to that same advantage last year before Polaris bumped up their H.P., and to no avail?

Just because a promotional video shows the Mav launching off of a razorback, whilst the RZR buries it's rear at the crest of it doesn't mean that we'll cross the checkers first in a SCORE or BITD event. I heard that the turbo increases the torque significabntly, but when transferred through a CVT clutch, isn't torque really overrated? Now, if Can-am came out with a badass sequential shift tranny that offered a mechanical advantage in the leveraging of gear ratios (as MP touched on earlier), I would say yes, that is an unfair advantage. But a 10% gain in horsepower (well, twice again as much if you buy into my argument the kinematics of lining up the rear cv joints) is not enough to overcome the choppiness of Can-am's T&A, or whatever it's rear suspension is called, compared to the smoother and less complex progressive trailing arm design of the RZR's. The fact that Polaris just throws money at the problem doesn't hurt their fight either.

Let 'em race, or don't let 'em race due to the turbo's is just a fundamental argument in my opinion. If it weren't for the vulnerability and lack of power in the drivetrain, believe it or not, the Wildcat's provide the best beginning platform to build from. However, they are a non-issue, as they appeared to show little interest in competing against the top two mfg's.

That's my 24 ounces worth.

It's a legit point. But it's besides the point in the grand scheme here. Doesn't matter about the HP increase or if only 1 racer builds one. I don't think any of the Polaris guys even care but do you just make the amendment in the rule book? What if Polaris drops a Turbo next year and it has 190hp? Is it still a "let them run" attitude??

 

[JoeyD23]

Btw does crack make you defensive? I'm not sure. Lol

I am a bit defensive but I'm also a lover of debate. I'm not butt hurt. Just want to be clear lol

 

[JoeyD23]

Well I guess if your going to assume Can Am would be that dominant right off the bat. I would say by the time they have teams with there cars dialed those old cars would be outdated anyway.

No one knows if it is or isn't. What if it is dominant?? Is it still fair? That is why it belongs in an unlimited or turbo class at least until we know where it stands.

Make sense?

 

[warlock]

No will need a new car next season if the classes remain according to that rules are currently in place. If they build one it's because they want to. Not because they have too.

Turbo cars race in Unlimited and earn their keep. You shouldn't affect the second largest class in off road racing for what might only be 2 or 3 or 5 or whatever racers and one OEM.

Am I on crack??

You add to the Second largest class in offroad racing to help further it to the
1st and Largest class. The Red Headed step child can play as far as Im concerned and yeah another OEM involved in the Heated competitive class is needed and should be wanted so they are Excited to push harder.
SoCal Crack I guess, lol. Your kids Team Keep score there still. or is everyone a Winner. JK. Sorta.

 

[Kalop]

Joey you do seem like butt hurt luv stricken Polaris fan boy on this thread.... you know a cynical bastard (like myself) could accuse you of advocating NO MAV turbo racing at this point so that you can delay just long enough for Polaris to roll out their factory turbo (what they need, a year?) which will be more HP than turbo Mav ... then suddenly the tone will change to "let 'em race" ... "this is evolution of our sport" ... "fans want to see the best of the best race against each other".

Everyone knows if you shove turbo factory Mav into unlimited class to compete with 220HP z1 swap or other frankenstein buggy's ... NO ONE will compete in this class, or the handful of people who do will never be taken seriously.

 

[warlock]

It's a legit point. But it's besides the point in the grand scheme here. Doesn't matter about the HP increase or if only 1 racer builds one. I don't think any of the Polaris guys even care but do you just make the amendment in the rule book? What if Polaris drops a Turbo next year and it has 190hp? Is it still a "let them run" attitude??

Absolutely you let them Run if its a Production Machine. So maybe just Maybe Arctic Cat gets off there Ass and starts producing there Turbo Sled motor in the Wildcat that would be cool and its gonna force Can Am and Polaris both to get with it again. Correct.. Factory Production is Evolving Fast so let them Go.

 

[crazywatson]

I am a bit defensive but I'm also a lover of debate. I'm not butt hurt. Just want to be clear lol

Lol I know you have thick skin.

 

[crazywatson]

No one knows if it is or isn't. What if it is dominant?? Is it still fair? That is why it belongs in an unlimited or turbo class at least until we know where it stands.

Make sense?

I see your point but don't agree. We can't compare it with Frankenstein cars. I think it needs to run against real production cars to get a true test of the cars abilities.

 

[RocketMav]

After following utvunderground.com for years I finally decided to step up to the forum. My Name is Fernando Flores and I am Marc Burnett Co driver and really happy to say Reed's No.1 apprentice.

This turbo tred is really interesting because it has brought to my pov positive feed back for the organisations to prevent this type of (problems/ discussions / wars) to were the new Utv's will fit .... BAJAXP pointed out a really good subject "The Rule Book" but that is a different ballgame.



Form my Pov ( not Marc's or Reed's ) I think that they souled allow it because it will only make the sport to grow, No body knows how this machine will behave in the racing environment (SCORE-BITD-LOORS-ETC) because it hasn't ben done, we are only speculating.

I can hear people talking all ready saying that we got that “X†place at that “X†race of the 2015 because we were racing the TurboMav ( if we race next year ).

Well let me tell you guys some thing, I don't know if Badassmav has let you guys know that we are racing a full blone stock motor (101-hp Rotax).
We havent put a singel wrench on it, and whit that solid rotax engine we have been climbing on the podium all year long.

BUT we have seen the disadvantages (motor wise) that we have whit the Badassmav VS the other guys.

We know that the top competitors are putin the wrench on there motors and getting the 120's 130's 140's Hp, and trust me we saw them work @ V2R 2 teams just walking away from us.


It didn't feel awesome having jagged X in front of us for 60 miles (more or less) . .... just roosting us before we made the safe pass.... or having cognito passing us on the wash and me trying to explain Marc that "I don't know were he came out form".... That its just racing... The guy that wins at the end of the day is not the guy that has the most awesome ride, or the one that gets more top speed, or HP..... for me .. is the TEAM that can get throughout the day whit the less problems... not the car, driver, mechanic, etc ... The TEAM ... so whit that being said in my opinion there is no reason why they should not let the Turbos run in the ProClass ... Or maybe the Pro Class means:

"The team that has the more money to spend"

Why dropp that much on your engine to get more Hp and race the ProClass wen you can race the Unlimited? ...

That is not fair for the expirience racers that are starting to race the Pro Class whit a limited budget .. trying to compet against experienced guys that have the same UTV as them but whit 5k or more on the engine... its that fair ??..
Or maybe a new rule should be that the team that modifies the engine should race the unlimited class ?


What we only want to do is go out there and race, and prove to the series that the Utv’s are the biggest class out there.

United us ... don't split us.


Just my 2 pinches tacos. ..





.-Viva los carritos de golf-.


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[JoeyD23]

Joey you do seem like butt hurt luv stricken Polaris fan boy on this thread.... you know a cynical bastard (like myself) could accuse you of advocating NO MAV turbo racing at this point so that you can delay just long enough for Polaris to roll out their factory turbo (what they need, a year?) which will be more HP than turbo Mav ... then suddenly the tone will change to "let 'em race" ... "this is evolution of our sport" ... "fans want to see the best of the best race against each other".

Everyone knows if you shove turbo factory Mav into unlimited class to compete with 220HP z1 swap or other frankenstein buggy's ... NO ONE will compete in this class, or the handful of people who do will never be taken seriously.

I love this machine. I can't wait to build mine and be a part of promoting it with Can Am. I should get one in the next couple of weeks!! Fan boy still?

Am I fan boy because I have an opinion? Again I will say it for those of you who can't read. This isn't about Can Am vs Polaris this is about a Turbo vs Non Turbo. Why can you wrap your eye balls around that? Why do you guys insist on making this about Polaris and Can-Am. My arguments would not change if this was a Polaris Turbo or a Kawasaki Turbo. It's the same f'n argument. lol

And the Turbo doesn't need to run against a turbo z1 Frankenstein to get an accurate gauge. For those who don't understand how desert racing works let me explain it for you. You don't race like NASCAR where the guy who crosses the line first wins. You race on time. So it doesn't matter if you are sportsman, 850, pro Utv, dsr1, or unlimited. You run your race the same as everyone else and you finish in a time limit. It will be really easy to see where this stacks up. But why f it up for the current rule abiding Pro Class by letting a turbo machine that may or may not be dominant only to realize wow we should have let the turbos have their own class. Many of you seem to think it's ok to just throw a couple cars into an established class without care of how or who it affects that's already racing. And I don't care if they are in a Polaris or not. It's about the whole class and NOT JUST DESERT RACING!!!! What about the other series???

 

[sand shark]

The only place I could see the turbo having a huge advantage would be in short course racing and I do not think the turbo should be allowed to race with the n/a cars.

In the desert races, survival is the name of the game and who knows how well the turbo will hold up let alone the rest of it. I say you let them race in the desert and see how it pans out. If it becomes clear it is too much of an advantage, then look at making some changes.

I think the hp difference for desert racing is significant enough as the top teams all have more than stock hp anyway. The only thing I would do is not allow them to add boost or change the ecu from the factory settings. The desert and the CVT system are going to limit how fast any UTV goes for sustained periods of time.

Joey - I think many are having way too difficult of a time separating Polaris from the equation. I completely get you concerns and the fact it is about turbo vs. n/a, not one OEM vs. another OEM.

This is a fun debate.

 

[Kalop]

I say you let them race and see how it pans out. If it becomes clear it is too much of an advantage, then look at making some changes

Agree... seems to be (based on poll and replies) most have same opinion.

Except Joey... I think everyone understands your position Joey... we just don't agree.. despite your cute graphics.

 

[JoeyD23]

I will say, I am offended by the fact that you assume I have some ulterior motive to support one brand over another. If you think I am dishonest then why ever would you spend time here?

I take pride on being a steward of our sport. I try hard to represent this sport well and fight for the betterment of it. Does Polaris spend money with UTVUG? Sure, more than most do, but Can-Am and others also spend time and money with us as well. I love the sport as a whole and I love each brand for what they bring to the table. So accusing me of spending this much time debating and discussing this subject soley because I am trying to deliberately fight for a particular OEM is upsetting to me and offensive.

 

[JoeyD23]

You add to the Second largest class in offroad racing to help further it to the

1st and Largest class. The Red Headed step child can play as far as Im concerned and yeah another OEM involved in the Heated competitive class is needed and should be wanted so they are Excited to push harder.

SoCal Crack I guess, lol. Your kids Team Keep score there still. or is everyone a Winner. JK. Sorta.

Who's the red headed stepchild ?? Quit making excuses for people. Murray's, Burnett, Sappington, etc would not consider themselves red headed step children. They fricken always battle for wins.

You act like it's horse power alone that is why people don't buy more mavericks to race.

I think I'm done here. I try to have a rational discussion and you guys want to make it a can am vs Polaris thing. Retarded.

 

[Kalop]

I will say, I am offended by the fact that you assume I have some ulterior motive to support one brand over another. If you think I am dishonest then why ever would you spend time here?

I take pride on being a steward of our sport. I try hard to represent this sport well and fight for the betterment of it. Does Polaris spend money with UTVUG? Sure, more than most do, but Can-Am and others also spend time and money with us as well. I love the sport as a whole and I love each brand for what they bring to the table. So accusing me of spending this much time debating and discussing this subject soley because I am trying to deliberately fight for a particular OEM is upsetting to me and offensive.

I don't think your dishonest.
I didn't even say YOU are favoring.
I'm just saying one could make the case for it... just as OTHERS on here have made case against Corey... I'm sure he could be offended too, no?
Don't get all butt hurt... lol I'm not even a racer, I have no dog in this fight... other than to see 'em all race against each other would be cool as hell IMO.

 

[badassmav]

At the risk of sounding redundant here, rules are rules, and they currently do not allow for turbochargers in our class. Period. Nor should they until all of the major players (currently the three long travel UTV mfgs.) offer turbos on the vehicles that they sell. If Polaris comes out with a turbo, I expect they would up the ante as they always do. Then I'm sure the others will follow suit and give us something tangible to debate.

Boasting Alert!
Allowing turbo's, only to add a weight penalty as mentioned elsewhere in this forum, does nothing for fairness or equality. I think that the Monster Mav has proven this year that adding weight does not even the playing field. We are +400 lbs. average over most of the cars we raced against so far this year, and have only raced on stock H.P. as provided by the factory Rotax engine, and that combination has produced only 1st or 2nd place finishes so far (except V2R, where we were in position to podium until taken out by a TT).

I know we all need juicy things to post about, but I think we are beating the drum a bit much on the topic of whether or not to allow turb's into any existing class of UTE's, until the other mfgs. step up and offer said technology on their cars as well.

 

[badassmav]

After following utvunderground.com for years I finally decided to step up to the forum. My Name is Fernando Flores and I am Marc Burnett Co driver and really happy to say Reed's No.1 apprentice.

This turbo tred is really interesting because it has brought to my pov positive feed back for the organisations to prevent this type of (problems/ discussions / wars) to were the new Utv's will fit .... BAJAXP pointed out a really good subject "The Rule Book" but that is a different ballgame.



Form my Pov ( not Marc's or Reed's ) I think that they souled allow it because it will only make the sport to grow, No body knows how this machine will behave in the racing environment (SCORE-BITD-LOORS-ETC) because it hasn't ben done, we are only speculating.

I can hear people talking all ready saying that we got that “X†place at that “X†race of the 2015 because we were racing the TurboMav ( if we race next year ).

Well let me tell you guys some thing, I don't know if Badassmav has let you guys know that we are racing a full blone stock motor (101-hp Rotax).
We havent put a singel wrench on it, and whit that solid rotax engine we have been climbing on the podium all year long.

BUT we have seen the disadvantages (motor wise) that we have whit the Badassmav VS the other guys.

We know that the top competitors are putin the wrench on there motors and getting the 120's 130's 140's Hp, and trust me we saw them work @ V2R 2 teams just walking away from us.


It didn't feel awesome having jagged X in front of us for 60 miles (more or less) . .... just roosting us before we made the safe pass.... or having cognito passing us on the wash and me trying to explain Marc that "I don't know were he came out form".... That its just racing... The guy that wins at the end of the day is not the guy that has the most awesome ride, or the one that gets more top speed, or HP..... for me .. is the TEAM that can get throughout the day whit the less problems... not the car, driver, mechanic, etc ... The TEAM ... so whit that being said in my opinion there is no reason why they should not let the Turbos run in the ProClass ... Or maybe the Pro Class means:

"The team that has the more money to spend"

Why dropp that much on your engine to get more Hp and race the ProClass wen you can race the Unlimited? ...

That is not fair for the expirience racers that are starting to race the Pro Class whit a limited budget .. trying to compet against experienced guys that have the same UTV as them but whit 5k or more on the engine... its that fair ??..
Or maybe a new rule should be that the team that modifies the engine should race the unlimited class ?


What we only want to do is go out there and race, and prove to the series that the Utv’s are the biggest class out there.

United us ... don't split us.


Just my 2 pinches tacos. ..





.-Viva los carritos de golf-.


[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

Yay! My compadre, "The Hairy Mexican" is on board! Welcome to the Underground, Fernanda-lito you little monster you!

 

[JoeyD23]

At the risk of sounding redundant here, rules are rules, and they currently do not allow for turbochargers in our class. Period. Nor should they until all of the major players (currently the three long travel UTV mfgs.) offer turbos on the vehicles that they sell. If Polaris comes out with a turbo, I expect they would up the ante as they always do. Then I'm sure the others will follow suit and give us something tangible to debate.

Boasting Alert!
Allowing turbo's, only to add a weight penalty as mentioned elsewhere in this forum, does nothing for fairness or equality. I think that the Monster Mav has proven this year that adding weight does not even the playing field. We are +400 lbs. average over most of the cars we raced against so far this year, and have only raced on stock H.P. as provided by the factory Rotax engine, and that combination has produced only 1st or 2nd place finishes so far (except V2R, where we were in position to podium until taken out by a TT).

I know we all need juicy things to post about, but I think we are beating the drum a bit much on the topic of whether or not to allow turb's into any existing class of UTE's, until the other mfgs. step up and offer said technology on their cars as well.

 

[badassmav]

Snoop Dog. That's hilarious! I was going to ask where do you find the time to round up these clips, but then I realized, IT'S YOUR JOB!

 

[Zach7x]

Well no more Dyno comps, sled pulls and diesel drag races that allow only tuning ext and intake, until dodge and chevy build something that can compete with the ford 6.4. btw I have a Polaris so not playing favs