badassmav
Well-Known Member
The Murrays it is. I'll have Marc send them off some pesos. BTW, they loaned me a 5 gal. can of racing fuel that was worth a 100 bucks. Hmmmm.........
Cost of Winning: The Monster Mav Chronicles
- Thread starter badassmav
- Start date
BiggJim
I Hate Rules - UTVUnderground Approved
LMAO!! Efffin old man! You musta took to many blue pills and all the blood went to your other head! Yea we talked in parker, at Tech when I unloaded our race car.
I remember that ! I just don't remember what the conversation was
badassmav
Well-Known Member
I don't, but Marc does. Just PM them. Tell em to have a forklift on call!
I could have swore Marc paid 75 bucks or less for the tie rods last year. Do you offer other ones, or was that another comp[any he got them from? 4 x bet. Wow! You are earning the title M.B. for sure!! Just yanking your chain. No sweat. I'll be asleep with a pocket full of cash when you roll across the finish line anyway, so...
It's classroom time. School me, because I'm self taught, and only an armchair machinist. What class threads are tapped in the aluminum, and how do you address the galling issue from dissimilar metals, galvanic corrosion and atmospheric oxides? Black oxide? Teflon coating? If I just flew over your head, maybe Big Jim can chime in. He's a grizzled old veteran when it comes to machining!
we normally tap Gh3 and we like Nickel Anti Seize .. aluminum isn't that bad with galling on the larger 3/8 and up but the smaller stuff and using hand tools instead of power tools helps .. oh boy if you wana see some galling go with chrome plated bolts lol
we don't do it but even a coat of carnauba wax will stay off oxidation on fresh machined or polished aluminum
megadesertdiesel
Well-Known Member
//Airdam told me there aint no difference.
Kalop
XP900
Holy shizznick... Johnny's going senile... Hey Johnny, I bought your Z1 .. still waiting on shipment, I'm sure you remember cash already delivered. LOL j/k
Blue Coyote
Member
We use Antiseize in all bolts going into dissimilar material (steel bolt into aluminum / brass, cast iron, high stressed parts). On all aluminum to aluminum connections (AN fittings, shock cross overs) we spray with teflon lube. Even anodized AN fittings can gall if dry (fighting a galled fitting under a full aircraft fuel cell is not fun).
NorthWestOffroad.net
Racing- Adventure - Fun
Maverick XRS
That it's the same belt and there's no difference. One is just a factory supplied belt and the other is a dealer supplied with different numbers
Dirtchaser
New Member
Alex you are correct. Even the three major US car companies do this for liability purposes. One set of part #'s for factory installed parts and one set for dealer parts. Being such a litigious country, manufacturers do this to cover the proverbial arse.
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badassmav
Well-Known Member
Not what he told me. When I asked him if the 364's are more durable than the 212's. he replied:
</td></tr></tbody></table></td><td class="gH">Aug 27 (2 days ago)
</td><td class="gH">
</td><td class="gH acX" rowspan="2">
</td></tr><tr class="acZ xD"><td colspan="3"><table class="cf adz" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td class="ady">to me
</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
reid absolutely!!!
the race belt was the 280-364 that was only available with the purchase of the new maverick. it was a completely different belt from the 212 belt that you get as a replacement from a dealer. simon used to sell them to me, but i dont have the ability to purchase race parts anymore.
Also, the 364 belts are approx. 5% thicker than the 212's (measurement taken at the maximum o.d. of the ribs. .691" compared to .662"). An argument can be made as to why a belt using different part numbers, or why a more durable belt would be used on Factory delivered vehicles, than is sold separately. This however, is a fact finding mission, not an argument! Unfortunately, people in the know are not as factually forthcoming as I, so I always find myself in a lop-sided conversation. Maybe I'm pinching a value less than pennies here, and am spinning my wheels. Unless our car is weighing in equal to other can ams, there can be no apples to apples comparison of belt life, driving habits not withstanding.
IMO, there is a difference, performance wise. Dimensionally at least, and a bit in the color as well.
megadesertdiesel
Well-Known Member
Not what he told me. When I asked him if the 364's are more durable than the 212's. he replied:
<table class="cf gJ" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr class="acZ"><td class="gF gK"><table class="cf ix" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td>Adam Harvey
</td></tr></tbody></table></td><td class="gH">Aug 27 (2 days ago)
</td><td class="gH">
</td><td class="gH acX" rowspan="2">
</td></tr><tr class="acZ xD"><td colspan="3"><table class="cf adz" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td class="ady">to me
</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
reid absolutely!!!
the race belt was the 280-364 that was only available with the purchase of the new maverick. it was a completely different belt from the 212 belt that you get as a replacement from a dealer. simon used to sell them to me, but i dont have the ability to purchase race parts anymore.
Also, the 364 belts are approx. 5% thicker than the 212's (measurement taken at the maximum o.d. of the ribs. .691" compared to .662"). An argument can be made as to why a belt using different part numbers, or why a more durable belt would be used on Factory delivered vehicles, than is sold separately. This however, is a fact finding mission, not an argument! Unfortunately, people in the know are not as factually forthcoming as I, so I always find myself in a lop-sided conversation. Maybe I'm pinching a value less than pennies here, and am spinning my wheels. Unless our car is weighing in equal to other can ams, there can be no apples to apples comparison of belt life, driving habits not withstanding.
IMO, there is a difference, performance wise. Dimensionally at least, and a bit in the color as well.
interesting. He must have found out more info since i had him tune my clutches at Thanksgiving last year. Now where can we get these 364 belts? I know //Airdam was selling them when the Maverick first came out and i got my hands on one but its currently installed and i have 3 of the 212 belts as spares. I wonder if he is still selling them.
badassmav
Well-Known Member
Adam says that Simon no longer sells them to him.
badassmav
Well-Known Member
Belts: Part number vs. Reliability
I've been in the clutch mode now for a month or so. I can't get my mind off of it. It is by far our weakest link. I have been in communication with a BRP representative regarding belt part numbers and their availability, durability, and use within the racing community.
The following is my findings, dimensionally speaking, after comparing 2 different part numbered belts. I'll paste the my latest BRP correspondence here:
Hi _____. I have a question regarding the drive belts on the factory delivered Mavericks (364) versus the replacement drive belts sold by the dealers (212). The 364's are 5% thicker (measured at the maximum outside dimension at the peaks of the teeth) than the replacement belts. Are they any different, durability wise, and are they available to us?
Thanks. Reid
Reid,
I took randomly 6 belt (3 x 280 364 and 3 x 715900212) in my inventory
The spec at the top as you described in your first email is 32,8mm. The difference between the largest and the narrower 32,89 and 32,68 is 0,21mm which is still whitin 1% off the spec
364(1) 32,89mm
364(2) 32,71mm
364(3) 32,72mm
212(1) 32,68mm
212(2) 32,80mm
212(3) 32,74mm
I am very concerned you found a 5% discrepency between these 2 belts. Can you please give me more details?
Hi ______. Thanks for replying!
I noticed that you are measuring the width of the belt, and I am referring to the thickness of the belt. I just went and took some additional measurements. Given a sample size of three-212 belts (one had 80 + miles on it, and two were new), and two-364 belts (one had 10 miles on it, and one was new), here are the following results:
Used 212 = .655"
New 212's = .656"-.660"
Used 364 = .686"
New 364 = .691"
This dimension represents the major thickness of the belt. To assure a mean number, the measurements were taken in two places on each belt, where the outer ribs and inner ribs fall into alignment. The reference points where the dimensions were taken are from the major diameter of the belt (high end of the outer rib), to the minor diameter of the belt (to the furthest inboard point of the inner rib).
The resulting numbers indicate the variation in thickness between the two belts, in the major cross section height, is between 4.4% and 5.3%.
I also weighed the belt for mass. The 212 belt weighs .98 lbs., while the 364 belt weighs 1.05 lbs. For the record, it appears that the additional cross section thickness of the 364 belt lies within its outer laminate, although I have no accurate way to measure that for sure. Suffice to say that, based on the BRP supplied belts in my possession, the 364 belts are on average 5% taller in overall cross section height than the 212 belts, and weigh 6.7% more than the 212 belts. Being that the ratio between the height and width of a cross section is conversely proportional, either measurement is an accurate representation of the increased area of the belt.
In case some of you are not aware of BRP/Maverick drive belts and part numbers, here's the skinny:
The -212 replacement belts that you order from your dealer, are different than the -364 belts delivered on new Mavericks and Maxs' from the factory. I was told that the -364 belts part numbers originated prior to the Mavericks release in 2013. The number is referencing the prototype Commander racing belts.
Why the number still exists, and is only available on a Maverick or Max when purchased new, but when you buy a replacement belt, they give you something different is beyond me. I will be requesting only the -364 belts from now on. They are 5 % thicker and heavier, and therefore, must be more durable.
Be it malicious or otherwise, the BRP rep is trying to pull the wool over my eyes by measuring the dimensions that favor his argument. I'm not a f-ing idiot, and I hate it when people insult my intelligence. The fact is, that I am always forth coming with information, whilst the racing community guards it like it was the dead sea scrolls or something. If I let the proverbial cat out of the bag here, it is only because I had to dig for the truth, instead of it being offered to me. I gotta get back to work.
I've been in the clutch mode now for a month or so. I can't get my mind off of it. It is by far our weakest link. I have been in communication with a BRP representative regarding belt part numbers and their availability, durability, and use within the racing community.
The following is my findings, dimensionally speaking, after comparing 2 different part numbered belts. I'll paste the my latest BRP correspondence here:
Hi _____. I have a question regarding the drive belts on the factory delivered Mavericks (364) versus the replacement drive belts sold by the dealers (212). The 364's are 5% thicker (measured at the maximum outside dimension at the peaks of the teeth) than the replacement belts. Are they any different, durability wise, and are they available to us?
Thanks. Reid
Reid,
I took randomly 6 belt (3 x 280 364 and 3 x 715900212) in my inventory
The spec at the top as you described in your first email is 32,8mm. The difference between the largest and the narrower 32,89 and 32,68 is 0,21mm which is still whitin 1% off the spec
364(1) 32,89mm
364(2) 32,71mm
364(3) 32,72mm
212(1) 32,68mm
212(2) 32,80mm
212(3) 32,74mm
I am very concerned you found a 5% discrepency between these 2 belts. Can you please give me more details?
Hi ______. Thanks for replying!
I noticed that you are measuring the width of the belt, and I am referring to the thickness of the belt. I just went and took some additional measurements. Given a sample size of three-212 belts (one had 80 + miles on it, and two were new), and two-364 belts (one had 10 miles on it, and one was new), here are the following results:
Used 212 = .655"
New 212's = .656"-.660"
Used 364 = .686"
New 364 = .691"
This dimension represents the major thickness of the belt. To assure a mean number, the measurements were taken in two places on each belt, where the outer ribs and inner ribs fall into alignment. The reference points where the dimensions were taken are from the major diameter of the belt (high end of the outer rib), to the minor diameter of the belt (to the furthest inboard point of the inner rib).
The resulting numbers indicate the variation in thickness between the two belts, in the major cross section height, is between 4.4% and 5.3%.
I also weighed the belt for mass. The 212 belt weighs .98 lbs., while the 364 belt weighs 1.05 lbs. For the record, it appears that the additional cross section thickness of the 364 belt lies within its outer laminate, although I have no accurate way to measure that for sure. Suffice to say that, based on the BRP supplied belts in my possession, the 364 belts are on average 5% taller in overall cross section height than the 212 belts, and weigh 6.7% more than the 212 belts. Being that the ratio between the height and width of a cross section is conversely proportional, either measurement is an accurate representation of the increased area of the belt.
In case some of you are not aware of BRP/Maverick drive belts and part numbers, here's the skinny:
The -212 replacement belts that you order from your dealer, are different than the -364 belts delivered on new Mavericks and Maxs' from the factory. I was told that the -364 belts part numbers originated prior to the Mavericks release in 2013. The number is referencing the prototype Commander racing belts.
Why the number still exists, and is only available on a Maverick or Max when purchased new, but when you buy a replacement belt, they give you something different is beyond me. I will be requesting only the -364 belts from now on. They are 5 % thicker and heavier, and therefore, must be more durable.
Be it malicious or otherwise, the BRP rep is trying to pull the wool over my eyes by measuring the dimensions that favor his argument. I'm not a f-ing idiot, and I hate it when people insult my intelligence. The fact is, that I am always forth coming with information, whilst the racing community guards it like it was the dead sea scrolls or something. If I let the proverbial cat out of the bag here, it is only because I had to dig for the truth, instead of it being offered to me. I gotta get back to work.
Last edited:
megadesertdiesel
Well-Known Member
That sucks that BRP will not even help out one of their top desert racing teams.
badassmav
Well-Known Member
I think I rub a lot of people the wrong way, and Marc never sugar coats his feelings. Maybe we ask to be ignored
? If we race again next year, we will rename our team to the Rodney Dangerfield Racing Team!
badassmav
Well-Known Member
Let us lighten up and have a laugh.........
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9a8_1409666796
If you're gonna get your ass kicked, don't let it be by spongebob square pants!!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9a8_1409666796
If you're gonna get your ass kicked, don't let it be by spongebob square pants!!
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