what i mean by saying 2 premier utv classes, is mainly that there are 2 in the spot light, the utv racing spot light that is. In the media, I think you will see more of who wins overall rather than who wins each class, just depends on the competition and finishing positions. The class splitting is a must at least for the next couple years.
BITD adds new Pro Turbo Production UTV class
- Thread starter SimsMotorsports
- Start date
rockstarcustomz
RoCkStAr CuStOm MoToRsPoRtS - UTVUnderground Appro
I don't think any of my sponsors care what class I'm running, a podium is a podium and a championship is gold. I understand what your saying, the production class of course gets more attention from the media than my class does. And in my eyes, I'm always racing to place in the overall. I don't know why we have to call one class "premier" There are 2 Pro classes period. Just my 2 Cents and thank you for noticing our hard work
acme
Active Member
Possibly but with the exception of Yamaha's recent re-entry into the performance market they will likely shift their marketing strategy, the others are marketing to a different audience. Regardless, I imagine the two current largest investors in marketing in the sport category and a few other interested parties seem to want this...
Polaris has never asked my opinion or given me a direction on where they want racing to go. And i bug them alot.
Your right I have no dog in this and that is the way I wanted it! I have turned down two opportunities in this class. One involved some of my money, which is not going to happen with the way things are being run, and who is running it. Then the second one was not my money, but I knew once the person who was spending the money saw "How today your car is competitive and how tomorrow its not" would not be pleased. When I explained it to him, and showed him a few "Real Racers" comments on this website about their feelings, about this class and its future. He too said this was not for him at this time.
This class looks good on the track, looks good on paper and even when I believe he called your shop to ask questions about buying a roller, that too sounded good. But once you see the underlining issues this class faces and the lack of long term control that we have yet to see, this class is a financial gamble. Some Vet's remember the Mini Mag & Pro Truck gamble which on paper sounded great, but in the long term failed.
The UTV class is growing and will get bigger with Yamaha and soon Arctic Cat getting back in. There is no argument there! But while Growth is important, so is long term Management of the future of the class, and right now I see this class as still playing in the Wild West. Much of the new Growth I see coming is due to the Manufactures push, and not from the independent guys. Same place Score's Class 8, Class 7, Class 6 and the BITD Stock truck & SUV classes were in. It will be interesting in another year or two to go back and look at my State of the UTV Class thread and see where its at.
acme
Active Member
I disagree, it's just as hard if not harder and more of an accomplishments IMHO to get a very limited class vehicle across the finish line to a win than almost any other class. One you have to finish the race and two you need to run through the tore up crap that all the other classes have left. Classes 7s, 9, 5/16, 11, 16, and the sportsman teams go through a lot... That's like saying an ATV win is less of a win than one on a bike and we know that is not true. The overall does hold a position of status but the accomplishment is no greater as the equipment is just more capable.
As for selling sponsorship we all know 98% of sponsorship deals are based on relationships, friendships and hook ups not necessarily based on marketing or marketability, performance, need, personality or talent. If it was a lot of guys would be sitting on the sidelines in all the classes...
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It is a financial gamble if you are getting into it to someday get out of it for the amount of your initial investment or close to it. The way technology is changing, there are a lot of dynamics going on with UTVs and thus UTV racing. Some people like this, some people dont, some people just want to slow it down. I would bet in the other classes to where the vehicles don't change year to year that it is easier to buy a used class 10 car and then sell it a couple years later for 80-90% of what you bought it for used.
Because of this constant and quick change of technology, buying a used car and then trying to sell it a year later for the same amount is not going to happen. Most people getting into utv racing accept this, they love being a part of it, but not everyone is going to understand. They dont look at it like a gamble, they want to do some affordable racing and it is worth the money to them even if they cant get half out of their utv when they are done.
You have a lot of good insight into racing and the history of racing due to your experience, most people that are utv racing do not, and they look up to you for your knowledge and your posts on here. I hope they still retain their own goals and thoughts and desires because a lot has changed since the last time you saw something like the Mini Mag and Pro Truck fail that you mentioned. Mature adults don't want to learn the hard way so they are listening to you, but i hope they also realize they have different eyes than you do, and just because something failed in history doesn't mean it is going to fail in the future since so many other things have changed that are a factor.
When I speak of the investment or gamble, its not necessarily the cost of the UTV and getting your money back. This is racing and I get it, been there, done that, and anyone getting in should get it. Your expenses are worth cent's on the dollar when you calculate it out. And you are 100% right you are not racing or should not get into racing with the idea of being able to cash out and re-coop 80% of your investment. It happens, but that is not the norm.
When I say the gamble or investment, I'm speaking of the class. I used Mini Mag and Pro truck as a perfect example as those were two classes that no longer exist due to the long term goal of the class did not come through. And because of this you no longer had a class or place to race these vehicles, as they too were heavily invested in one or two series, like the UTV class is with BITD. Luckily the Pro Truck with "Heavy" modifications could race in other classes, not so much the case for the Mini Mag. Yes both were on a Spec platform, but classes like 8, 7, 6 and Stock trucks were not and they failed do to rising cost, ever changing models and the loss of manufacture money coming in. Its taken years to finally see class 8 start to have a resurgence, but class 7, 7s & 7SX are all but dead. Stock truck in BITD is dead.
If and when the manufactures leave the 1900 UTV class (Nothing last forever. History will show you that.) then will you still invest the money its going to take to race at the level you are now without manufacture money? Will your competitors? I'm pretty confident to think teams like Jagged ,Marc Burnett and a few others would not stick around the UTV class if the money was not coming in.
Will it be cheaper to race in another class like 1600, class 12, class 10 that has shown staying power in all the off-road series, not just BITD? The UTV class is for the most part an entry level class. (Notice I said class not cost) Its got manufacture support right now, which is a major draw for the class, but also raises the cost for anyone without Manufacture support. Its that idea that maybe you can get some sponsorship that has lead many to the class. Sure you will always have teams progress and move up into faster classes, but you also need new blood coming in. The concern is when the money dries up, will people still want to race in this class? Will the vets stick around? Will new blood come in? Where else can the desert UTV be raced? You cant modify it to race in another class like some did with Pro Trucks, or how some have re-worked a class 1600 to race in class 12 or some have re-worked a class 12 to race in class 10. I even remember when the trick was to take the lighter class 10 and stick a LS engine in it and race class 1.
The UTV class is just so manufacture driven right now, and the leadership running the 1900 class has not changed. I would hate to see the long term future of the class be lost, because of what the manufactures and their teams want today. And when they decided to walk out and turn off the lights, I hope the 1900 class does not die with them, and those who want to race a UTV will still have a place and some competition.
That's the Gamble that I see!
I would not be posting or even be on this site, if UTV racing was not something I wanted to see be here long term, even without a dog in the fight.
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just got a call from BITD, turbo class will have closed ecu. Not what i wanted but we will deal with it.
I argued about the CanAm being able to increase the speed limiter without a reflash and the Polaris cant. They told me that they didnt want these utvs to go any faster, so i asked why they were allowing the CanAm to go faster but not the Polaris. They told me i should go race a CanAm then. I just dont think they understand the electronic limitations with these machines.
They said 10mph isnt going to win races, and you first have to finish, and driver ability has a lot to do with it. They obviously have not been on a racing team or raced in a long time. Sure driver ability is important but so is top speed. They told me not to go stir stuff up on the internet. I dont call this stirring anything up, what i am doing is discussing, and this is a free country, i think...
I am surprised that Cory Sappington is ok with increasing his speed limiter when he knows that the Polaris can't. Lack of integrity in this instance, mainly because of his position with BITD.
Needless to say we are not switching from Polaris, we will figure out a way to go faster!
I argued about the CanAm being able to increase the speed limiter without a reflash and the Polaris cant. They told me that they didnt want these utvs to go any faster, so i asked why they were allowing the CanAm to go faster but not the Polaris. They told me i should go race a CanAm then. I just dont think they understand the electronic limitations with these machines.
They said 10mph isnt going to win races, and you first have to finish, and driver ability has a lot to do with it. They obviously have not been on a racing team or raced in a long time. Sure driver ability is important but so is top speed. They told me not to go stir stuff up on the internet. I dont call this stirring anything up, what i am doing is discussing, and this is a free country, i think...
I am surprised that Cory Sappington is ok with increasing his speed limiter when he knows that the Polaris can't. Lack of integrity in this instance, mainly because of his position with BITD.
Needless to say we are not switching from Polaris, we will figure out a way to go faster!
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Nate the way I see it, its not as much Can Am, as we know Polaris spends more supporting the series. Its the UTV Tech Director / Rules maker who happens to be a racer with Can Am manufacture support that is running BITD. That is the Joke. This is part of that Gamble I was speaking about. Your racing's future investment is being controlled by someone with a clear conflict of interest.
Im not 100% sure but I think the Polaris Turbo guys have already figured out a way to trick the ecu speed sensor for more top speed without touching the Ecu. Maybe Johnny or Branden can confirm this.
Also Cognito just for curiosity, what is the top speed of your Rzr? We can only do 85mph, any faster than that and the belt starts to let go.
Also Cognito just for curiosity, what is the top speed of your Rzr? We can only do 85mph, any faster than that and the belt starts to let go.
Our xp1000 hit 82 (gps) on the river run at bwdc but we were ringing its neck rpm wise trying to catch you guys. The turbo xp will not go that fast top speed with that size tire, without some sort of speed limiter increase.
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facteryfmf
Looking For a Few Good Men - UTVUnderground Approv
Sims was bouncing Rev limiter on the pavement at 83.1 I believe
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10-4... Maybe Johnny or Sims can chime in on the speed limiter trick to see if there is any truth to it or not. I completely agree if they cannot increase the speed by tricking the speed sensor some how, then BITD may want to take a look into allowing ecu modifications. Even if the ecu is reflashed the limiting factor on HP will be stock turbo, stock fuel PSI and stock injectors, and I feel these things should never be allowed to be modified in the Pro Turbo class.
the stripping shop
RACER - UTVUnderground Approved
Devils advocate who cried wolf when can am won mint 400 with a flashed ecu. Then went and cried about rules and had score all up in arms.
the stripping shop
RACER - UTVUnderground Approved
Did you ever think utvra and bitd want to make the utv classes a spec class. If you think about what nikal says those are the classes that are thriving but if you want glory unlimited is were its at. If you want it to be fair all manufactures have to obey by the same rules not open up 1 thing different for them. Make them change there crap in production. But if you want utv to get bigger and faster then screw the rules open it up.
someone was saying they were doing 90 plus on the river run, i just dont know who it was. I have to assume it was a canam turbo.
In one of these threads airdam was saying 90 plus in the Canam.
facteryfmf
Looking For a Few Good Men - UTVUnderground Approv
Some people have said 94 in a turbo canam
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