How will the Turbo Maverick affect UTV racing?

[JoeyD23]

Reid is absolutly correct on the rules. You can't just look at the UTV rules (BITD) and come to the conclusion that it says nothing about turbos so therefore it should be permitted. If you read the ENTIRE rulebook you would find the following:

SCR33: TURBOCHARGERS
Turbocharges only permitted on gasoline-powered vehicles in classes listed
below.
Special Note: Ford Production EcoBoost turbocharged V6 gasoline engine
allowed in Class 7200, 8000 and 8100 only.
Factory installed or aftermarket turbochargers are permitted in the following
classes: 1400, 1500.

Well I guess that solves that..

I get where guys are coming from that say just let then run in the pro class since it's factory. But again, if Polaris or whomever introduced a 1500cc engine tomorrow and were the only one would you say the same thing? I doubt it.

I think the best suggestion was to have them run in sportsman or unlimited until other OEMs have a factory turbo. Then and if there are enough of these turbos racing they could have their own class or merge with pro.

Would be interesting to hear of any of the factory can am teams are considering racing a turbo model.

 

[warlock]

Well then let them all run together and the other Factory Teams will put pressure on Polaris to step up. Its the best thing for the Sport. The Game just got advanced and the only way to keep it going is to keep them together. so if theres a separate class for each new advancement what does that really do for the Sport. Im sure this is causing sleepless nights for some teams. Time will tell.

 

[the stripping shop]

I don't agree with matt or reid. I remember when the arcticat 1000 came out BITD and some teams put a weight limit on them. Made the team bend over backwards to compete but then as soon as Polaris and can am came out with there 1000 all rules were lifted and cc rule was changed.

 

[JoeyD23]

I don't agree with matt or reid. I remember when the arcticat 1000 came out BITD and some teams put a weight limit on them. Made the team bend over backwards to compete but then as soon as Polaris and can am came out with there 1000 all rules were lifted and cc rule was changed.

Which to me seems like a fair thing to do. You can't give anyone an "unfair advantage" whether it's factory or not. Point being, they let the Arctic Cat run with a weight rule in order to offset the advantage it had in CCs that at the time exceeded the RULES / CC limit.

This is the same thing we are up against now it appears. The rules state no turbos. So do you think they should change the rules because the OEM released a model with one? That's a bad precedent to set maybe?

I think you have to handle it like you mentioned above. You can't cater to one single OEM or model. But if other OEMs follow suit then you can justify a rule change.

I want to see the turbo run, but I also want to be careful as to not ruin what's special about our class of racing by constantly changing rules forcing new cars to be built every season to remain competitive.

 

[JoeyD23]

Well then let them all run together and the other Factory Teams will put pressure on Polaris to step up. Its the best thing for the Sport. The Game just got advanced and the only way to keep it going is to keep them together. so if theres a separate class for each new advancement what does that really do for the Sport. Im sure this is causing sleepless nights for some teams. Time will tell.

The pressure will not be on Polaris. The pressure will be on all the non turbo racers if in fact this turbo model proves to be far superior, which is still unknown. Polaris or Kawasaki or Arctic Cat or whomever does not react to the competition like one may think. Your solution above only forces those who just completed 1000s to then potentially have to build a new machine due to a model that doesn't even fit into the rules that they built their cars according too.

I will add. I doubt we will see a turbo from Polaris by the time next years racing season starts.

 

[the stripping shop]

I can't believe Reid is not talking about the bigger clutches,the intakes,the dual fans on the clutches, the bigger shocks mounted to the lower arms. Everything he is fighting looks like the addressed it. Now don't get me wrong Iam a Polaris guy I own a brand new 1000 but Can am did a really good job addressing a lot of there issue on this model. Now don't quote me on this but has the Joey d not driven one yet because I would expect one hell of an arcticle just saying.

 

[sanduras]

Which to me seems like a fair thing to do. You can't give anyone an "unfair advantage" whether it's factory or not. Point being, they let the Arctic Cat run with a weight rule in order to offset the advantage it had in CCs that at the time exceeded the RULES / CC limit.

This is the same thing we are up against now it appears. The rules state no turbos. So do you think they should change the rules because the OEM released a model with one? That's a bad precedent to set maybe?

I think you have to handle it like you mentioned above. You can't cater to one single OEM or model. But if other OEMs follow suit then you can justify a rule change.

I want to see the turbo run, but I also want to be careful as to not ruin what's special about our class of racing by constantly changing rules forcing new cars to be built every season to remain competitive.

NO Kidding, I started to build mine before the xp 1000 even came out, now I am already at a disadvantage with the 900.they are pumping out newer ,better models and I am just barely finishing mine up. LOL.Its a budget deal for me, no way I can keep up by buying and building the newer model every 6 months.

 

[sanduras]

the new can am has addressed ALOT of their problems with this new machine. how hard would it be for a guy to get it , remove turbo ,and pump it up n/a style.

 

[the stripping shop]

I want to see the turbo run, but I also want to be careful as to not ruin what's special about our class of racing by constantly changing rules forcing new cars to be built every season to remain competitive.[/QUOTE]

Your funny name the last winner/class champion that won a BITD or Score race that the car was over 2 years old. You have to build a new car every 2 years to keep up with the manufactured teams. Better yet name the last non manufactured team to win a one of those races.

 

[the stripping shop]

The pressure will not be on Polaris. The pressure will be on all the non turbo racers if in fact this turbo model proves to be far superior, which is still unknown. Polaris or Kawasaki or Arctic Cat or whomever does not react to the competition like one may think. Your solution above only forces those who just completed 1000s to then potentially have to build a new machine due to a model that doesn't even fit into the rules that they built their cars according too.

I will add. I doubt we will see a turbo from Polaris by the time next years racing season starts.

The pressure is on Polaris they don't want to be 2nd in the hp wars. they need to address there trans and clutch issue first then they can move on up. Out of all the racing can am has done I have never heard of a trans failure, but there clutches suck balls and there rear suspension sucks too. Ask every top Polaris team what the 2 main issues are and I bet you Polaris is having same issue with there turbo model.

 

[JoeyD23]

I want to see the turbo run, but I also want to be careful as to not ruin what's special about our class of racing by constantly changing rules forcing new cars to be built every season to remain competitive.

Your funny name the last winner/class champion that won a BITD or Score race that the car was over 2 years old. You have to build a new car every 2 years to keep up with the manufactured teams. Better yet name the last non manufactured team to win a one of those races.

The 1000 is barely 1 season old!!!! lol THATS WHY! Ask Jagged, Sims, Cognito, Coastal, etc etc etc etc if any of them planned to build new machines for next year? I also doubt the Murrays, Sappington (who just finished another maverick), etc want to or planned to build another car.

This should be the year we don't have to build new machines again. A few years ago lots of racers were competing multiple seasons on the same platform. No one was forced to build a new machine until the XP1000 came about. The Arctic Cat had potential but the Commander I don't think was ever going to really get guys to go all out like the XP1K has.

Reality is this. Until someone shows up with a Turbo Maverick ready to race we are all pissing in the wind.

I don't think rules should be compromised based on one OEM. Should they be considered? Sure, but like Matt said, the problem we have is the OEMs dictate the rules and racing right now due to the non stop progression. Its a good problem for us, but its a problem.

 

[JoeyD23]

I can't believe Reid is not talking about the bigger clutches,the intakes,the dual fans on the clutches, the bigger shocks mounted to the lower arms. Everything he is fighting looks like the addressed it. Now don't get me wrong Iam a Polaris guy I own a brand new 1000 but Can am did a really good job addressing a lot of there issue on this model. Now don't quote me on this but has the Joey d not driven one yet because I would expect one hell of an arcticle just saying.

No one in the media has driven one yet. But I am on the list to receive one of the first 5 in the next week or so....

 

[the stripping shop]

The 1000 is barely 1 season old!!!! lol THATS WHY! Ask Jagged, Sims, Cognito, Coastal, etc etc etc etc if any of them planned to build new machines for next year? I also doubt the Murrays, Sappington (who just finished another maverick), etc want to or planned to build another car.

but Reid is getting ready to build one. which model would he choose. If coastal,jaggy,cognito were given the new model to build for next season would they or would they not. Better yet would they have to, keep there sponsorship.

 

[the stripping shop]

Your funny name the last winner/class champion that won a BITD or Score race that the car was over 2 years old. You have to build a new car every 2 years to keep up with the manufactured teams. Better yet name the last non manufactured team to win a one of those races.[/QUOTE]

Joey d you still didn't answer my question

 

[JoeyD23]

The 1000 is barely 1 season old!!!! lol THATS WHY! Ask Jagged, Sims, Cognito, Coastal, etc etc etc etc if any of them planned to build new machines for next year? I also doubt the Murrays, Sappington (who just finished another maverick), etc want to or planned to build another car.

but Reid is getting ready to build one. which model would he choose. If coastal,jaggy,cognito were given the new model to build for next season would they or would they not. Better yet would they have to, keep there sponsorship.

There is more to why Marc Burnett is building a new machine. They learned a lot on their first go around but now they know what they need to do to get their ultimate machine better.

I can't say which model Marc would choose to race. I can tell you this, Marc wants to race against the best, not by himself or amongst a few others, therefore if the RULES state no turbos then I would bet Marc would opt to race against the best without a turbo.

If Polaris introduced a new model of course Polaris guys would want to race it, but the question isn't about a NEW MODEL, its about a NEW MODEL THAT DOESNT FIT IN THE CURRENT RULES which is what this discussion is about. Its not about all these hypothetical thoughts and what ifs.

The question I posed was to discuss how BITD, WORCS and other orgs should handle the new Turbo and if others want to race it. So its simple, do you think BITD should just toss the rules to the side and allow a non compliant model to race because an OEM released it? Or do you think its fair that everyone plays by the same rules until there are at least enough of the same offerings from other competitive brands to justify either 1. its own class or 2. to merge with the current pro class??

Your question about who won what in what brand or was sponsored by who is irrelevant. It really has little to do with the discussion at hand. You can take can-am and polaris out of the equation here. If Yamaha or Honda or Kawasaki or KYMCO introduced this new Turbo model the question remains the same. This isn't about Can-Am vs. Polaris.

 

[the stripping shop]

If Polaris introduced a new model of course Polaris guys would want to race it, but the question isn't about a NEW MODEL, its about a NEW MODEL THAT DOESNT FIT IN THE CURRENT RULES which is what this discussion is about. Its not about all these hypothetical thoughts and what ifs.

The question I posed was to discuss how BITD, WORCS and other orgs should handle the new Turbo and if others want to race it. So its simple, do you think BITD should just toss the rules to the side and allow a non compliant model to race because an OEM released it? Or do you think its fair that everyone plays by the same rules until there are at least enough of the same offerings from other competitive brands to justify either 1. its own class or 2. to merge with the current pro class??

That is my point arcticat came out with a model got to race with the pro's.Then Polaris and can am came out with theres and rules were changed. Why wouldn't you do the same here.Why hold back them back. Let Polaris catch up for once. lol do you really think kitty cat will have something or Yamaha, Kawasaki. They show no potential in the off road area only the farm field area.

 

[the stripping shop]

Your question about who won what in what brand or was sponsored by who is irrelevant. It really has little to do with the discussion at hand. You can take can-am and polaris out of the equation here. If Yamaha or Honda or Kawasaki or KYMCO introduced this new Turbo model the question remains the same. This isn't about Can-Am vs. Polaris.[/QUOTE]

It is relavant you can't be at the top with a utv more then 2yrs old unless you make a class for them. Yes this is Polaris vs Can-AM do you think Polaris wants to be number 2. Yamaha/kawi/kymco/kitty cat are not showing any potential in the off road. Looks like they are more concerned about agriculture. Last Question what if murray/cory/burnett showed up at score desert challenge with 3 stock turbo maverick? They fit the stock platform hummmmmm

 

[JoeyD23]

good point.. They did bend the rules for the Arctic Cat 1000. I don't remember all the details when their machine was introduced or when the Commander was introduced. So I can't elaborate much there.

I guess if I played the other side, which I often like to do for sake of positive debate, I would say that BITD was making an inclusion based on the fact that the machine fell into no current class (like the Turbo), but also was breaking no rules. It was simply a larger CC that was representing a threshold that our sport had not yet crossed. The problem with the Turbo is that it clearly breaks a rule that is in place to prevent the Turbo from being allowed to compete against other naturally aspirated vehicles in the Pro class. The rule has been written, so what you and others (the majority so far in the poll above) want is to throw the rule to the wayside simply because the OEM broke it in a factory machine.

 

[JoeyD23]

If they showed up to race in the stock class at SCORE than thats fine. Thats not the Pro Class so its irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Plus last I looked I think there was only 1 entry in that class so far.

But to address your rebuttal on whether or not this is a Polaris vs. Can-Am thing, I think you missed my point. My point was if that any other OEM dropped this Turbo 1000cc model, the discussion is no different!! It still remains to be the same problem which again is why I started this thread, and that is to decide where they fit in.

So let me ask this. You do agree that we should all ask BITD / WORCS / LOORRS to throw out their rule of NO TURBOS in favor of a new factory machine? You think its fair to then race NATURALLY ASPIRATED engines against FORCED INDUCTION? Is there another class in racing that allows this? I am unaware if so.

 

[the stripping shop]

So let me ask this. You do agree that we should all ask BITD / WORCS / LOORRS to throw out their rule of NO TURBOS in favor of a new factory machine? You think its fair to then race NATURALLY ASPIRATED engines against FORCED INDUCTION? Is there another class in racing that allows this? I am unaware if so.[/QUOTE]

Class 7200 turbo vs n/a yes. class 1500 turbo vs n/a yes. class trophy truck yes turbo vs n/a yes. Eco boost motor danzio twin turbo auzzie crazy turbo v6 and your brother pistol I believe too all have turbo and race against n/a motors. drag racing turbo vs nos motors yes. Loorrs I could care less about they though the utv out. but maybe the turbo cars could be faster then the super buggies. worcs that easy make a factory turbo class like they did with the 1000. Bitd/score run what the factory produces the desert will have the last laugh. Rules suck balls. Yes bitd lets turbo race were have you been