Cost of Winning: The Monster Mav Chronicles

BiggJim · Jun 19, 2014

hows prep coming reid? We are a little ways out....

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Bajaxp · Jun 19, 2014

badassmav said:
I run the stock rear sway bar (no front), and lengthened the lever arms by a calculated dimension to soften the bar up a bit. Otherwise, I was afraid that through the increased wheel travel, the stiffness of the bar would have held up the tire(s) in hard corners, but more importantly, in the deep straight offset whoop sections where the left and right side of the car need the freedom to independently follow the terrain and keep the tires in contact with the ground. Had I known our car would eventually amass a weight to the tune of 2,363 lbs, I might have re-considered lengthening the lever arms at all!
Matt, thanks for not hi-jacking my chronicles, and it is refreshing to hear someone not bash Marc for the bottleneck incident. I'm tired of hearing people try to use that incident to discredit his driving prowess as it relates to us winning the race, as well as discredit the cars ability to kick ass. When you're up, there's always someone who wants to try and bring you down. I hate that about our society.
Thanks for your inquiry!

No worries!

Your posts have gone from abusive to informative and I give you credit for the change, and I think UTVUG is the better for it. I think team 1905 is now a solid part of the UTV racing desert racing community and has 'earned' respect.

Question #2: I would guess that the Murray's Canned Ham-4 weighs around 1800 lbs. Maybe 1900. Where specifically is your car 500 lbs heavier than theirs? If my intel is wrong then please correct me.

badassmav · Jun 19, 2014

Bajaxp said:
No worries!

Your posts have gone from abusive to informative and I give you credit for the change, and I think UTVUG is the better for it. I think team 1905 is now a solid part of the UTV racing desert racing community and has 'earned' respect.

Question #2: I would guess that the Murray's Canned Ham-4 weighs around 1800 lbs. Maybe 1900. Where specifically is your car 500 lbs heavier than theirs? If my intel is wrong then please correct me.

Read Post # 47, page 5 of this thread. I'll answer more inquiries this evening. Working on getting the blown motor ready to ship back to BRP tomorrow.

I weighed the Murray's car for them a few months back. Out of respect, I cannot disclose their weight (I think Derrick is around 210!), but I will say that your guess is fairly accurate.

Bajaxp · Jun 19, 2014

badassmav said:
Read Post # 47, page 5 of this thread. I'll answer more inquiries this evening. Working on getting the blown motor ready to ship back to BRP tomorrow.

I weighed the Murray's car for them a few months back. Out of respect, I cannot disclose their weight (I think Derrick is around 210!), but I will say that your guess is fairly accurate.

That really doesn't answer my question.

badassmav · Jun 19, 2014

Bajaxp said:
That really doesn't answer my question.

There is no one "specific" area that I can zero in on. It is fat, across the board, and for a multitude of reasons. As thread #47 said, every tube that the car was delivered with from the factory is still in place (with the exception of the control arms, and the roll cage.) The _______who started the project just piled more tubing on top of, underneath of, adjacent to, and inside of the existing structure. Add 4 of Fox's internal bypass, 16" and 14" stroke shocks designed for running on trucks, and all the spare parts that are listed within this thread, and there is your answer. If I'm not mistaken, I believe post #47 also gave a rundown of our spare parts, tool bags, and basic component package associated with the car.

I don't mind sharing facts about our car, even to our competition. I am not threatened by it. I only ask that you all have to do some legwork as well. I beliebve that all of the criteria is already within this thread for you to have answered your own question if you spend the time to read through it. I can list each component, and how much it weighs, but that is prohibitively timely, and starts to veer of of the path I want this thread to take, not to mention BORING!

facteryfmf · Jun 19, 2014

How much do you believe a full powder coated chassis weighs?

facteryfmf · Jun 19, 2014

Just the powder on the chassis

Bajaxp · Jun 19, 2014

A lot! Maybe 75 lbs. My guess.

RJ...I thought my question was a good one and a bit of an 'olive branch' to you guys. I was looking for generalities not specifics. 500 lbs is a chit ton of weight (eg...two fat guys). But I am guessing this weight is necessary with the way the damage has piled up on 1905. Yes/no? You wanted to 'engage' with me so I am trying.

BiggJim · Jun 19, 2014

facteryfmf said:
Just the powder on the chassis

Bajaxp said:
A lot! Maybe 75 lbs. My guess.

RJ...I thought my question was a good one and a bit of an 'olive branch' to you guys. I was looking for generalities not specifics. 500 lbs is a chit ton of weight (eg...two fat guys). But I am guessing this weight is necessary with the way the damage has piled up on 1905. Yes/no? You wanted to 'engage' with me so I am trying.

When we built Kenny brink car we had that exact question, if my memory serves me right it was 6 pounds of powder on his car. I will have to go on red forums and find the thread.

BiggJim · Jun 19, 2014

I stand corrected, 9 pounds of powder on Kenny brink chassis. http://www.rzrforums.net/cognito-motorsports/104380-win-free-cognito-t-shirt-4.html

badassmav · Jun 19, 2014

facteryfmf said:
Just the powder on the chassis

a guess.......... 37 lbs. I was told it took almost a full box of powder.

badassmav · Jun 19, 2014

Bajaxp said:
A lot! Maybe 75 lbs. My guess.

RJ...I thought my question was a good one and a bit of an 'olive branch' to you guys. I was looking for generalities not specifics. 500 lbs is a chit ton of weight (eg...two fat guys). But I am guessing this weight is necessary with the way the damage has piled up on 1905. Yes/no? You wanted to 'engage' with me so I am trying.

No. The weight is not necessary to the extent of being 400 lbs. heavier than most. I think I can do a ground up build on the new Max frame I currently have sitting in the shop, and keep it under 2,000 lbs., and be as durable as the Monster Mav is now.

I could save a quick 80 - 100 pounds if I wanted to switch out our internal bypass shocks for Podium shocks, but I believe that 17-18" of wheel travel is ignorant when it means motion ratios in the .5 or .6 range. I could build my boxed arms without an internal structural tubing frame, but an impact that tore into the lower front a arm during the SF 250 would have sidelined us. If not for the redundancy designed into the component, the damage would have been catastrophic and lost us the San Felipe race. I definitely could shave 30-40 pounds by using bushings instead of rod ends at every pivot point on the vehicle. That the car has done well is again thanks to Marc's abilities, and a lot of steel, much which is unnecessary. I can go on and on where I could shave pounds, but given our results this season, why would I want to change anything except for clutching? We just want to squeeze 3 more races out of it, then to the museum of scrap metal it goes!

So, to simply answer your question, no, I do not think the weight is necessary to achieve the results we have this season. I am confident I can build a 2,000lb. winning chassis that Marc can blow away the times our current car lays down. Remember, we haven't been able to sustain speeds over 65 mph all season without blowing belts. Any time people claim we gained by "bottle necking" was lost on the lakebeds and high speed roads. The win was still fought for, and diligently nI might add.

Johnny · Jun 19, 2014

"I think the pace will be a bit fast for Johnny to podium this race."

ok so my second race Baja 500 ran right with you guys until I got a flat at mile 40 I was passed by about 7 utvs passed them all back befor mile 160 took a 14 Minute pit for gas and still got back on the race course in 3rd pitted at 260 in third 45 minute Pit stop to replace a arm with a blown uniball hand the car off in third to Brian who let Cognito smoke past him ... LMAO you say im not even a contender

My First race started in third and by mile 80 I was battling for 1st had some belt issues and finished 7th .. ya I suck

did your car even finish a race your first season ?

Kalop · Jun 19, 2014

I think money bags is a contender... I'm very impressed with how well you've done Johnny in such short time.

warlock · Jun 19, 2014

Frankie said:
I think money bags is a contender... I'm very impressed with how well you've done Johnny in such short time.

.

Penny Bags

did really good for his first Baja 500. Now the car has some race time on it and it better get torn down and inspected or sell it off and Build a fresh car for each Race .

badassmav · Jun 19, 2014

Johnny said:
"I think the pace will be a bit fast for Johnny to podium this race."

ok so my second race Baja 500 ran right with you guys until I got a flat at mile 40 I was passed by about 7 utvs passed them all back befor mile 160 took a 14 Minute pit for gas and still got back on the race course in 3rd pitted at 260 in third 45 minute Pit stop to replace a arm with a blown uniball hand the car off in third to Brian who let Cognito smoke past him ... LMAO you say im not even a contender

My First race started in third and by mile 80 I was battling for 1st had some belt issues and finished 7th .. ya I suck

did your car even finish a race your first season ?

Nope. We sucked all year long. The difference between our first year and your first year in UTV's is that Marc had already been racing and winning for over 25 years going into it, so he was capable of winning from the start. His driving abilities clearly were not the reason for a season of DNF's. You are as green as I am $1,000 richer, so unless you are a phenom, like Gordon was at 15, you will require some time to reach a comfort zone at those higher speeds for prolonged periods of time.
And I thought I had confidence issues! You Johnny are one fast and funny dude. I never said that you weren't a contender. I said, and stand by it, that the pace might be a bit fast for you. Speeds for the V2R are going to be averaging around 47-49 mph., compared to the 35 you averaged at Baja, and that means lot of flat out roads, hanging it out in the corners, and not making mistakes. Do you really feel that you can drive 25% faster than you did at the Baja? (that's a rhetorical question by the way). I would be impressed if you could do that this early in your racing career for prolonged periods of time. I told you I was impressed with your Baja effort, so man up Moneybags!!

Why are you not able to race the V2R? Is it a medical deal? I don't need to know any more if it is. That's a bummer for you. I know you are liking this racing thing, and that makes one less Polaris in line for a spanking!!

JoeyD23 · Jun 20, 2014

I would bet Johnny has 10-20 times the amount of seat time in a UTV then Burnett and let's face it, desert racers are not super human and do not require some sort of special gift, at least not to compete in UTV. TT? maybe..

There is a balance in being fast and NOT overdriving your equipment to the point of abuse. I believe Johnny understands where that line is and that's why he has had success early in his "racing" career. I don't think Johnny or anyone else with his level of seat time needs much time to adjust as far as sustaining a high speed for a long period of time in a desert race. Let's face it, were talking 70-85mph top speed and we will reach those speeds only a few times through the course of our race. This is not Trophy Truck or Class 1 or even Class 10. Sure we are moving but in desert racing and especially in our class it takes more brains then right foot to win races. Johnny will sustain a higher speed in his Bentley for longer periods of time then he will doing 80 in his UTV.

I don't believe racing for 25 years on bikes and in trucks will make you a FASTER or more talented UTV racer, experienced maybe, but certainly not faster especially when comparing to a person who has wayyyy more seat time in a UTV. Marc knows his way around a Race course, he has experience and he is a fast driver. But Johnny or Schueler or Sims or Lambert or Murray's or anyone else is just as fast as one another.

I say all this because I think you make it seem in the post above and in some other posts like Marc has something no one else has in the UTV class. This is desert racing, not rocket science.

sand shark · Jun 20, 2014

Johnny said:
"I think the pace will be a bit fast for Johnny to podium this race."

ok so my second race Baja 500 ran right with you guys until I got a flat at mile 40 I was passed by about 7 utvs passed them all back befor mile 160 took a 14 Minute pit for gas and still got back on the race course in 3rd pitted at 260 in third 45 minute Pit stop to replace a arm with a blown uniball hand the car off in third to Brian who let Cognito smoke past him ... LMAO you say im not even a contender

My First race started in third and by mile 80 I was battling for 1st had some belt issues and finished 7th .. ya I suck

did your car even finish a race your first season ?

Ouch! Lol.

badassmav · Jun 20, 2014

JoeyD23 said:
I would bet Johnny has 10-20 times the amount of seat time in a UTV then Burnett and let's face it, desert racers are not super human and do not require some sort of special gift, at least not to compete in UTV. TT? maybe..

There is a balance in being fast and NOT overdriving your equipment to the point of abuse. I believe Johnny understands where that line is and that's why he has had success early in his "racing" career. I don't think Johnny or anyone else with his level of seat time needs much time to adjust as far as sustaining a high speed for a long period of time in a desert race. Let's face it, were talking 70-85mph top speed and we will reach those speeds only a few times through the course of our race. This is not Trophy Truck or Class 1 or even Class 10. Sure we are moving but in desert racing and especially in our class it takes more brains then right foot to win races. Johnny will sustain a higher speed in his Bentley for longer periods of time then he will doing 80 in his UTV.

I don't believe racing for 25 years on bikes and in trucks will make you a FASTER or more talented UTV racer, experienced maybe, but certainly not faster especially when comparing to a person who has wayyyy more seat time in a UTV. Marc knows his way around a Race course, he has experience and he is a fast driver. But Johnny or Schueler or Sims or Lambert or Murray's or anyone else is just as fast as one another.

I say all this because I think you make it seem in the post above and in some other posts like Marc has something no one else has in the UTV class. This is desert racing, not rocket science.

Marc and I would both would agree that a method of driving utv's to make them last is critical to winning, and finishing well. I don't believe that the UTE I built is that much greater than any other of the top teams UTE's , as far as overall specs go (although one may conclude differently by reading my post. I'm a boasting proud papa, that's all!). Throw 400 or 500 lbs. of dead weight on any other of the top teams UTE's , add a clutch that is far from properly set up, and I dont think that they can dominate the podium all season as we so far have, and if they tell you otherwise, they're just lying to you. We literally are 10 mph slower on the top end, and are 15 mph slower on the top end in regards to the ability to reliably maintain a top speed (assuming the top cars can reliably pull 79 mph).

So, if not for awesome driving skills, where else does 4 consecutive 1st and 2nd place finishes come from in a car that is nearly 500 pounds overweight? Luck? Cheating? Being first to a developing bottleneck that later turns into a traffic jam? We started off of the line 7th at Baja, so it's not like we got there first because we started first. You tell me Joey, where is it that we somehow have the advantage?

BiggJim · Jun 20, 2014

badassmav said:
Marc and I would both would agree that a method of driving utv's to make them last is critical to winning, and finishing well. I don't believe that the UTE I built is that much greater than any other of the top teams UTE's , as far as overall specs go (although one may conclude differently by reading my post. I'm a boasting proud papa, that's all!). Throw 400 or 500 lbs. of dead weight on any other of the top teams UTE's , add a clutch that is far from properly set up, and I dont think that they can dominate the podium all season as we so far have, and if they tell you otherwise, they're just lying to you. We literally are 10 mph slower on the top end, and are 15 mph slower on the top end in regards to the ability to reliably maintain a top speed (assuming the top cars can reliably pull 79 mph).

So, if not for awesome driving skills, where else does 4 consecutive 1st and 2nd place finishes come from in a car that is nearly 500 pounds overweight? Luck? Cheating? Being first to a developing bottleneck that later turns into a traffic jam? We started off of the line 7th at Baja, so it's not like we got there first because we started first. You tell me Joey, where is it that we somehow have the advantage?

I dont know marc, but what I do know is he is doing his homework when it comes to pre running. When you have time to go help mark the course and prerun for 3 weeks it definitely give an advantage over the competition whom hasn't done those things. I am sure the 25 years of experience in BAJA also plays a huge role in the success you guys are having. I am sure Marc is a great driver and you're prep work combined his knowledge of the landscape is a winning combo. with that said...dont lead me to believe that clutching is holding you back. UTV clutching is not rocket science.

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