BITD Class Vote on turbos

[baja specialist]

I don't think it becomes "I want a trophy class" it just keeps things fair and balanced. Let the turbos run against Turbos. They can define the Unlimited class. Only 5 UTVs even entered that class at V2R. That class has no identity right now. Lacretia dominates in what is a Pro UTV essentially. If guys want to build some crazy wide or long UTV let them. I think the way you guys build the current UTVs are the ultimate set up. Turbos & Superchargers change the class drastically not just now but for the future.

If the Unlimited class was redefined then it makes sense to put them in there. But if you were to put them in the unlimited class would you keep them with a stock motor or let them run? I think keeping them with a stock motor would be better for the class because it would be less expensive. But then again it would be fun to let them run. Maybe restrict them to stock bore and stroke (because it can be checked) and let them mess with the ECU. That would still keep the cost down as it only cost three to four hundred dollars to do a reflash.

 

[COGNITO]

If the Unlimited class was redefined then it makes sense to put them in there. But if you were to put them in the unlimited class would you keep them with a stock motor or let them run? I think keeping them with a stock motor would be better for the class because it would be less expensive. But then again it would be fun to let them run. Maybe restrict them to stock bore and stroke (because it can be checked) and let them mess with the ECU. That would still keep the cost down as it only cost three to four hundred dollars to do a reflash.

I say same rules as na class, if the turbo cars are separated, let them play with it all, 1000 cc limit. Much easier to tech, if they go for more power than they risk more problems, just like the na cars

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[JoeyD23]

I think we are all missing the major point and only concentrating on the racing factor how about we look at the industry that will fall if people have to build new cars every year just because the manufactures released a new car. questions to ask your self. who will buy the old car that is now out dated? in turn thus will start shrinking the class not only from returning racers (with outdated cars) but also new racers because they know there car will be out dated in less than a year. the majority of the class is your average guy that cant fork out 100k every year to build a competetive car. look at class 1600 and class 9 you can buy a 1980s car and make a few minor changes and still be competitive. Thats my two cents. look at the UTV industry not just the class.

The resale value may drop but there are millions of potential buyers to buy a used recreational vehicle. Not so for race cars.

 

[SimsMotorsports]

Curious how people would feel about a class "restructure" or name change with the current 3 classes. Its been made pretty clear that we can't add another class, so what about a "restructure" or name change with the current classes? I for one don't want to race in an "Unlimited" class with my "Production" Turbo RZR. Seeing that we have 3 classes available to work with would it be possible to move the current "Unlimited" class to a "Sportsman" class seeing that there are about 3-4 entries each in both the "Unlimited" and the "Sportman" classes, change the "Unlimited" class to maybe "Pro Production" (Factory Turbos, Factory Superchargers, Manual Shifting Gearcases, and Production 1000 cars if they choose, but all must be production) and change the current "Pro Production" class to something like "Pro 1000" to allow the N/A cars to continue to race against each other in a Pro Class

I feel that this could accommodate everyone and no one feels cheated nor outdated.......

Thoughts?

 

[baja specialist]

Restructuring is probably the only answer given the choices we have. I can see separating the N/A cars from the turbo cars. But I don't think that the shifter cars should be thrown in with the turbos. If you are going to restructure and separate them then maybe do Production 1000, Production Forced Induction, then a Sportsman class.
Another thing to think about is what class would get what numbering system. A lot of the top teams have built their number like a brand. it's kind of like brand recognition if you will. It would be kinda weird seeing someone else racing with the 1932, 1921 or the 1905 numbers.

 

[ironworks]

Curious how people would feel about a class "restructure" or name change with the current 3 classes. Its been made pretty clear that we can't add another class, so what about a "restructure" or name change with the current classes? I for one don't want to race in an "Unlimited" class with my "Production" Turbo RZR. Seeing that we have 3 classes available to work with would it be possible to move the current "Unlimited" class to a "Sportsman" class seeing that there are about 3-4 entries each in both the "Unlimited" and the "Sportman" classes, change the "Unlimited" class to maybe "Pro Production" (Factory Turbos, Factory Superchargers, Manual Shifting Gearcases, and Production 1000 cars if they choose, but all must be production) and change the current "Pro Production" class to something like "Pro 1000" to allow the N/A cars to continue to race against each other in a Pro Class

I feel that this could accommodate everyone and no one feels cheated nor outdated.......

Thoughts?

I see you thought process, But most cars are gonna still be NA. SO no matter what you call each division on eis going to have more racers for a while. I think the overall UTV award is going to be the big prize whether there is a trophy or not, unless it just gets to point the turbos are just a more dominant car. Its will be like 2 different classes and people will eventually go to the faster turbo car if they build a new car or build their first car.

 

[Ignore Amos]

I think you have 3 classes... You dont want to do away with the current Pro Unlimited class as I think you will see that class grow as you need to remember it went from SR1 just last year to a true Pro Unlimited class this year.. you will see more and more better built and sorted cars hit that class (including mine).. it will grow and separate itself from the SR1 stigma it has had for years.. there are 6-7 cars that have pretty much raced every race this year (not 3-4 have suggested) It will also be a good place for the older n/a cars to go..for cars that wont be able to update to a turbo motor and stay in the Pro class...In my opinion.. sportsman can get lumped into NA Pro (and give them a lower entry fee option if not looking to be considered for points and payout) as that is class that only has 2-3 cars in on a consistent basis. So my thought is the same amount of classes as its looking to be allowed...but Pro N/A, Pro Turbo and Pro Unlimited- another idea has been mentioned.. you can have an overall points winner between the the Pro N/A and Pro Turbo as well... a separate winner of each class.. and and over combined class winner... so the NA guys can compete against the Turbo guys for an overall BITD championship.... some details to work out but doable.

 

[JoeyD23]

After reading all these threads and trying to keep up on everyones complaints and Ideas it's probably time to throw my hat in the ring.

I think it would be ideal if there were 3 UTV classes in BITD. Pro Production, Pro Unlimited, and Open. The production and unlimited classes would be identical when it comes to chassis and suspension setup and the only change would be in the motor package. I'm curious to see how a manual transmission plays out vs a CVT. Also how does a turbo stack up against a MT. These MT cars may be better suited for the unlimited class with the turbos. Open would combine the sportsman and Unlimited class of today.

One major thing that I also think that should happen is to not allow mid year rule changes. If any Manufacturer introduces a new vehicle that does not fit the rules as they are written then it should run in the open class for the remainder of the season. Also the rule book for the following year should be released in sept-oct to give all teams ample time to adjust and build for the following year.

If we don't introduce some consistency into our field, it's going to drive away more people than it will attract.

This is a solid suggestion.

Current unlimited becomes Open and the new Unlimited features Production vehicles with forced induction engines.

 

[Bret901]

This is my idea for the premier UTV class, best of the best, if an OEM builds it you can race it.

Factory Pro Production 1900

Oem produced UTV available to the public.
Same Safety Rules
Must remain factory bore stroke
Forced induction must use factory turbo/supercharger
Must use factory transmission and diffs
ECU flashing allowed
33" max tire size
Must use factory suspension pivot points
Mid year releases can enter class
Engine swaps allowed from newer models of same make.


Draws for starting order:
1st race Random draw entire field

Following races: Top 10 from previous race random draw.
The rest of the field starts from previous finishing order.
New entries at the back.


















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[SimsMotorsports]

This is my idea for the premier UTV class, best of the best, if an OEM builds it you can race it.

Factory Pro Production 1900

Oem produced UTV available to the public.
Same Safety Rules
Must remain factory bore stroke
Forced induction must use factory turbo/supercharger
Must use factory transmission and diffs
ECU flashing allowed
33" max tire size
Must use factory suspension pivot points
Mid year releases can enter class
Engine swaps allowed from newer models of same make.


Draws for starting order:
1st race Random draw entire field

Following races: Top 10 from previous race random draw.
The rest of the field starts from previous finishing order.
New entries at the back.


















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I like this! I just don't want to be in an Unlimited class with people doing unlimited stuff to their vehicles. I want to be in the premier class and if an NA car wants to compete in that class then great as long as we are all in Production vehicles. I don't even care to reflash my ECU.

 

[Bret901]

Allowing reflash ecu is much easier to police.


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[dmurray]

This thread seems to be moving in the right direction. I agree with you 100% Brandon! Also dont care if we can or can not flash. We too are game with any production vehicle from any MFG as long as its OEM. We want to race all the different Brands in 1 class with the best drivers and best platforms. If its got geared clutch, if its got a turbo, if its got a supercharger, if its has magic pixy dust power, we feel that if its 1000cc its a pro production class vehicle. There needs to be competition of the best platforms to keep the class growing. The unlimited class is not OEM enough IMO and has too much flexibility but there is still a place for the guys to push the limits with the older cars there. I think what Bret901 listed is a good concept.

1- Maybe Pro Production class like Bret901 listed above.
2- Limited which has more limits- to keep cost down for getting into the game without having to spend crazy $$$
3- Unlimited

Remove sportsman as only 1-3 cars raced this all year that I am aware of??

and this would be 3 classes which I believe is the max I understand BITD wants?

 

[Bret901]

I don't think there should be a set CC limit, just retain oem bore and stroke, forced induction looks like the future but what if a manufacturer comes out with a 1200cc NA triple cyl. More controversy, head that off now and say if they build it you can race it in Pro Production.

Corey basically said the same thing when the turbo Mav came out, this is a production class.

Whatever is decided, the class that the factory backed racers enter will be the biggest class, most racers myself included want to race the best out there, so if you do manage to win a race or podium you've actually accomplished something.

I think the key to this working is allowing previous year models the ability to upgrade to current power plants. It'd be nice if it didn't have a bunch of red tape involved.






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[dmurray]

Makes since. I would be open to this. It is a production class. so it makes since. I just did not want to put too much on the table at once re cc. I agree that we would want to race where ever the most competition is in this class.

 

[Queen Racing]

Pro Open
1000cc limit, factory forced induction vehicles, factory driveline, open to modification, basically same current rules as the production class.

Pro Lights
1000cc limit, same current rules as production 1000..

Sportsman..
Run what you brung!! If you have build an exotic, it is most likely to not finish anyway as the past has proven it, and you are not a factory platform.

Motocross has made the rules of full on WORKS bike's not legal for pro use! This will separate factory level racers from the majority! Keeping the Pro classes open to modification of the FACTORY engines, electronics and driveline will continue the support of aftermarket manufactures that are the ones who are making these classes thrive!!! Cut out all the people who support the class, and the class will die.

Now, the OEM'S have 2 classes that their current cars they manufacture will fall into. Lets face the facts, who would buy a std XP1000, or a 1000 maverick to go build to race against the factory supported teams with their turbo powered cars?????????

Another thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If we are calling these PRO classes, how can a 1st time racer show up and get a lucky draw and get the 1st staring spot against seasoned ACTUAL PROFESSIONAL racers!!!??? If you want to race PRO, you must qualify by at least "completing" 2-5 full races in the sportsman class! How would Jagged feel if they were passing that first time racer at mile 5, and they took a turn into them to block them and wrecked them like they are at the go cart track, destroying their car, their points, and their safety? If you want to race with the best, earn it!!!!!!

 

[the stripping shop]

Another thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If we are calling these PRO classes, how can a 1st time racer show up and get a lucky draw and get the 1st staring spot against seasoned ACTUAL PROFESSIONAL racers!!!??? If you want to race PRO, you must qualify by at least "completing" 2-5 full races in the sportsman class! How would Jagged feel if they were passing that first time racer at mile 5, and they took a turn into them to block them and wrecked them like they are at the go cart track, destroying their car, their points, and their safety? If you want to race with the best, earn it!!!!!!


That's kind of funny you wouldn't be able to race then in pro lol just saying.

 

[baja specialist]

Another thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If we are calling these PRO classes, how can a 1st time racer show up and get a lucky draw and get the 1st staring spot against seasoned ACTUAL PROFESSIONAL racers!!!??? If you want to race PRO, you must qualify by at least "completing" 2-5 full races in the sportsman class! How would Jagged feel if they were passing that first time racer at mile 5, and they took a turn into them to block them and wrecked them like they are at the go cart track, destroying their car, their points, and their safety? If you want to race with the best, earn it!!!!!![/QUOTE]

All of your ideas where pretty good except for this one. I see where you are coming from as I came from racing dirt bikes and quads. But the logic that you are using only comes from Motocross. It does not apply to desert racing at all. That is one of the great things about desert racing, If you have the balls and the money you can jump right in and race against the best there is, and if you have the skill you can beat them. By using your logic you would never have gotten a lot of the top racers in this class. I am sure Marc B would not sign up to race sportsman 2-5 times in order to prove that he is capable to race in the pro UTV class. Hell, Johnny would have never been able to win the Pro UTV title at last years Baja 1000. And I would have never been able to win this years Baja 500 in the pro class. This rule would make me sign up under sportsman even though I have over 10 years as a factory pro racer. And in that time I averaged 20-30 races a year. Just because someone has been racing a UTV for a year or even three years does not by no means make them "ACTUAL PROFESSIONAL racers".
If this rule were to be made it would have forced last years Baja 250, Baja 500, Baja1000, Henderson 250 and this years Parker 250, Baja 500 winners to sign up under sportsman. I'm sure that I'm missing some but that is the ones that come to mind.
Like I said before, that is what makes desert racing uniq. If you have the Balls and the money to jump in and race with the big boys, you can. I don't know why you would want to change that part of about desert racing. In desert racing I believe being a PROFESSIONAL racer is more about attitude, how you handle yourself, how you handle your team and how well prepared you are. And most of all how you treat other competitors on and off the track.

 

[the stripping shop]

Another thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If we are calling these PRO classes, how can a 1st time racer show up and get a lucky draw and get the 1st staring spot against seasoned ACTUAL PROFESSIONAL racers!!!??? If you want to race PRO, you must qualify by at least "completing" 2-5 full races in the sportsman class! How would Jagged feel if they were passing that first time racer at mile 5, and they took a turn into them to block them and wrecked them like they are at the go cart track, destroying their car, their points, and their safety? If you want to race with the best, earn it!!!!!!

All of your ideas where pretty good except for this one. I see where you are coming from as I came from racing dirt bikes and quads. But the logic that you are using only comes from Motocross. It does not apply to desert racing at all. That is one of the great things about desert racing, If you have the balls and the money you can jump right in and race against the best there is, and if you have the skill you can beat them. By using your logic you would never have gotten a lot of the top racers in this class. I am sure Marc B would not sign up to race sportsman 2-5 times in order to prove that he is capable to race in the pro UTV class. Hell, Johnny would have never been able to win the Pro UTV title at last years Baja 1000. And I would have never been able to win this years Baja 500 in the pro class. This rule would make me sign up under sportsman even though I have over 10 years as a factory pro racer. And in that time I averaged 20-30 races a year. Just because someone has been racing a UTV for a year or even three years does not by no means make them "ACTUAL PROFESSIONAL racers".
If this rule were to be made it would have forced last years Baja 250, Baja 500, Baja1000, Henderson 250 and this years Parker 250, Baja 500 winners to sign up under sportsman. I'm sure that I'm missing some but that is the ones that come to mind.
Like I said before, that is what makes desert racing uniq. If you have the Balls and the money to jump in and race with the big boys, you can. I don't know why you would want to change that part of about desert racing. In desert racing I believe being a PROFESSIONAL racer is more about attitude, how you handle yourself, how you handle your team and how well prepared you are. And most of all how you treat other competitors on and off the track.[/QUOTE] Well said

 

[Johnny]

can we just make a special exemption rule to that rule ? and only make it applicable to Mark Queen ?

 

[Queen Racing]

can we just make a special exemption rule to that rule ? and only make it applicable to Mark Queen ?

HAHA!! I guess I see the points of everyone on needing to qualify. I am just simply trying to find a way to keep the class safe from wreckless drivers. Qualifying would solve that!!!