STOCK Polaris Xp Class @ The Lucas Oil Regional Series??? Need your input

[JoeyD23]

if you dont look ahead you will have same problem as sr1. ex were are they now,yes they were cheaper to build,cheaper to race, but they have nobody to race with. If lucas oil would of made them run certain sprocket, stock ecu, tire,you would of then been able to slow them down so the kawis/polaris/canam could of all been competive. instead you seen everyone blowing up trying to keep up costing alot of money and nobody showed up. cut the head off now so you can have alot of people competive instead of a hand full. you could ask benchmark/queen/k&t/muzzy/black rhino to re flash everyone computer during tech for 1 time fee ex you have 10 guys show up flash for 100-150. they flash the stock class to clean up fuel setting and everyone does it because it makes your car run better anyways. safety rules make them black and white standard cage ex "A" pillar must run chrommolly tube clamp instead of stock 2 bolt set up. cage has to be out of 1-3/4 no 1-1/2 or 1-1/4 any were since its a bolt on cage. "b" pilar plate has to be made of 5/16" and bolted with 3 bolts 3/8 bolts. top of "B" pilar must tie into rear bumper can be bolt on if you use chrommoly tube clamps. rear bumper must be out 1-3/4 tubing. "A" pilar and "B" pilar must be tied together with one 1-3/4 tube for door bar can be removable if you use chromolly clamps. bottom of door must have 2 spots that tie to steel bars with 3/8 bolts and 5/16 plate. 5 point harness/helmet/window net/ fire suit. if you use stock fuel tank to external pump and must have fire blanket/aluminum/something to cover it.

The Pro UTVs were not there to race SR1s. They were there to race other factory styled UTVs. SR1s did not need to be limited, for what? Those tracks are made for major HP to make them exciting. The Pro UTV class with the help of LOORRS killed themselves by racing themselves out of a class. The trend was already set before the SR1s came along, if you didn't have a $10k-$15k motor program then don't bother showing up unless you were content with running around the pack hoping the other guys would break. The guys who were committed to the Pro UTV class were committed to doing whatever it took to make more power to go faster. That race for the top ended up becoming the death of the class due to cost.

SR1s came on the scene with the intent of building a machine that was affordable to build and maintain. While some lost motors I know many who raced on the same engine many many times. This was not possible with a high string V Twin. RJ was able to keep his Kroyer XP engine alive but he was the only one competing in a XP in the class. I believe the reason he was the only one was 1. It was a new machine an 2. It was jut too damn expensive to build a LOORRS car and compete in it. The building of the machine wasn't the problem, the rules were very detailed and maybe over done for a UTV but it was the cost of racing for a whole season at the big show that scared people away. Let Rahders, VanBeekum, George's, etc explain what it cost to get their team into the pits, fuel, food, repairs, etc etc. that's why killed this class. UTVs are affordable to buy and when you apply rules an formatting like WORCS and what the regional is trying to do you have success with UTV racing and car turnout.

My point for this is that cage design, tube diameter, ECU regulating, etc really have nothing to do with car count. Fuel cells do in my opinion because once you require aftermarket fuel cells you have to change a ton. But the key to getting good turnouts in UTV racing are low entry fees, affordable to get your team, family, etc in to the event and keeping the cars as close to stock as possible.

One day we can hope that LOORRS will bring us back, but That's only going to happen if we build car counts back up.

 

[the stripping shop]

joey i completly understand what you are saying. but if you dont have those safety standards/a way to keep cheating down in the regionals what happens ex. if lucas says you can bring that class to the big show. you would have same problems yes. i am 100% sure i know what it takes to get to a race and race the whole weekend. and I am using the SR1 as an example they only had 5-8 people show to race just like BITD has 1-3 DSR1 show up. I am going to say what happens when that cage/stock bolt sheer and break on xp cage. do you change rules then. Just to let you know polaris/kawasaki/arcticat will not call it roll cage.i believe they say frame or accesory frame. i wounder why yamaha

 

[dnf736]

The Pro UTVs were not there to race SR1s. They were there to race other factory styled UTVs. SR1s did not need to be limited, for what? Those tracks are made for major HP to make them exciting. The Pro UTV class with the help of LOORRS killed themselves by racing themselves out of a class. The trend was already set before the SR1s came along, if you didn't have a $10k-$15k motor program then don't bother showing up

Everything Joey said is pretty much right on except for the price of a LOORRS UTV racing engine. $15k might cover what was in our Rhino 760 in 09 but for a competitive v-twin you could easily double that and then some and that would be enough for a mid pack effort.

What killed short course UTV racing? The UTV did. The SR1 almost kept it alive as it was cheaper to convert from UTV to SR1 (about $5000) than it was to rebuild a short course UTV engine but, in the end not enough racers stepped up, Tony made a judgement call, and it all faded back to the Regional’s.

Some data to chew on, this is minimum what it cost to race your first UTV at LOORRS, I know I missed something;
Entry $300
License, annual $590
Mechanic, annual $470
Crew, annual $320
Race gas $65
Diesel $250
$1995.00 your first time out.
$615 each round after that not including below
Your race car, tires, other wear items and consumables, spares, crash/race damage, time off, sleeping arrangements(motorhome/toybox/hotel) food, tow vehicle, wear and tear on it, fire suit, helmet, gloves, shoes etc.

XP racing at LORORS...I have some thoughts on this.....

 

[450grl]

What's sort of ironic, is now that SR1s only race regionals, we have a great turnout! Around 15 or so for the SR1 Championship races, and around 10 for the regular AZ Regionals. Cali has a nice turnout as well..... If LOORRS brought this class back, I think those numbers would dwindle down again just based on the cost of competing in the big leagues (as Doug explained), and the intimidation factor for many purely sport, purely recreational racers who are enjoying the low stress fun factor of the regional races. LORORS is a great format for low budget (well, if there is such a thing) racing, whether it be in trucks, buggies or UTVs. With the amount of kits we have been selling, next year should be even bigger for the SR1s. With the new XP class (which I saw and thought was cool, because I was out there that day!) it's a great way to bring back affordable factory-based UTV racing to short course, and increase the field counts! I wish them lots of success, and hope to see more of it.

 

[450grl]

PS - we'll be out at GH in July for the Regional - can't wait to beat myself up on that track again - lol!

 

[dunecruzr]

I would agree that on the Lucas Series, Lucas Oil really put the nail in the coffin for the utv classes at the big show. The cost of putting together a car to race and be competitive at that level could buy a house in todays market, don't forget back up parts, supplies, and the travel costs just as dnf 736 stated.

That is what is cool about the regional level racing low entry fee no major time off from work requests for several days at a time. there always seems to be a good turn out at the Az Regional races at every race, from Sr1, unlimited, and 1 in the stock class. It would be awesome if the stock utv class could grow in numbers it is a good place for someone to start out at with no racing experience and work there way up from there to unlimited utv or trucks for that matter. If you look at Lucas Oil Series who are the ones doing well in there classes. UTV RACERS!!!. Except for that Chick in Pro 4... Just kidd'n Corry. Don't blow a gasket, I think you are having one hell of a season being its the 1st year in that beast. You are paving the way for woman like my daughter who want to race at that level. thank you.

Here is a thought! what if during qualifying your lap times are averaged. 7 lap qualifying. throw out the fastest and slowest lap times of that car and average the remaining 5 laps. you could base your classes on average lap times vs the way it is done now. Here is the kicker for those who sand bag to be slower on the track. if your race lap average is 5 seconds faster than your qualifying average you will secure the win for the race and points, but at the next race you will be moved into the next fastest class up and you will carry your points with you to that next level. This system is a progressive type of deal. As you get better or faster you just can't dominate the class you are currently in, but will force you to be better in the next class. And yes you could have a Sr1 car in a slower class than say the Sr1 class, because the driver maybe new and just starting out and can't hang with say the Wellers as they know how to push a Sr1 car around a track. Forget about what someone has for motor or bolt on performance, base it on a one time qualifying time at the first race of the season to setup the utv classes, and as you add performance to your car or you get better as a driver, you will be moving up the ladder into the faster lap time cars. I see this as very doable to setup classes to make it fair for all.

So what do you think?

 

[Dirty]

Sorry To Spam But - So here's an update on the Lucas Oil Regional series at Glen Helen July 20th and 21st. UTV's included!!!

On Friday Night Ultra4 Racing / King of the Hammers Movie screening of "Rise of the East" (see koh.themovie.com for details)

We are partnered up with Dave Cole at Ultra4 and will have about 50 ---- Five Zero -- Ultra4 running around Glen Helen on Saturday Morning and Night.

UTV and Stockers will be running between 7:30 am - 9:00 am for the 4 Wheel Parts Glen Helen Grand Prix UTV & Stock Class Races

Tim Jones has put effort into bringing the AZ Regional Boys and girls to So Cal for a Pre Vegas Speed test!! So the Karts, UTV's and MiniStock Class should be exciting!!

Saturday Night- 6:30 pm - 9:00 pm **4 Wheel Parts Glen Helen Grand Prix Ultra 4 Race** This will take place through the whole park!! Be sure to bring the campers!!


Check out the rest of the info below and feel free to ask any questions.

​

Tentative Schedule.

Friday July 20th
12:00 pm - Gates open for Lucas Oil Regional RV move in
1:00 pm - 6:00 pm Registration/Tech open
2:30 pm - 7:00 pm Open Practice ($50 fee to participate)
9:00 pm - King of the Hammers Movie screening (see koh.themovie.com for details) **
10:00 pm - Gates closed

Saturday July 21st
6:30 am - Gates Open
7:00 am - 8:45 am Registration/Tech ($25 late fee after 8:45)
7:30 am - 9:00 am **4 Wheel Parts Glen Helen Grand Prix UTV & Stock Class Races **
8:30 am - Track crew safety briefing
8:45 am - Media safety briefing (at registration trailer)
9:00 am - MANDATORY Lucas Oil Regional Series Drivers Meeting
9:30 am - Currie Enterprises Ultra 4 Heat Race (6 laps)
9:45 am - 11:30 am Practice/Qualifying (4 laps)
11:30 am - 12:00 pm Track Prep/Crew Lunch
12:00 pm - Currie Enterprises Ultra 4 Main Event ($250 entry fee w/ $100 going towards purse. 20 truck maximum for payout up to $2000!! 1st-50%, 2nd-30%, 3rd-20%)
12:15 pm - 2:15 pm Heat Races (6 laps)
2:15 pm - 2:30 pm Track Prep
2:30 pm - 5:45 pm Main Events
5:45 pm - 6:15 pm Awards
6:30 pm - 9:00 pm **4 Wheel Parts Glen Helen Grand Prix Ultra 4 Race**

** 4 Wheel Parts Glen Helen Grand Prix Race is a special event sanctioned by Hammerking Productions; see www.ultra4racing.com for more info**

Tentative running order for all regular sessions is as follows:
1. AM Ortega J1 Karts
2. CMI J2 Karts
3. Synergy Electric Modified Karts
4. Black Rhino UTV**/RZR**/Pilot**
5. Alumi Craft Limited Buggy**/1600 Desert Buggy**/Lite Buggy & Class 9**
6. Icon Vehicle Dynamics Mini Stock**/Mini Open**
7. Full Stock**/Open V8**/Desert Buggy**
8. Pro Am Pro Buggy
9. Method Race Wheels Pro Open**/SuperLite**

 

[tatum]

How hot is it over there this time of year?I would like to come and check this out and maybe bring the race car.I was thinking a 9am race might still be nice outside.

 

[Dirty]

How hot is it over there this time of year?I would like to come and check this out and maybe bring the race car.I was thinking a 9am race might still be nice outside.

It should be about 15-20 degrees cooler then Arizona? Glen Helen always has a nice breeze.

Hope to see you out here.

 

[Seaver]

This is good stuff. I'm converting one of my cars to compete in these regional XP races! Looking forward to getting out n mixing it up w Bryan n the Rockstar team.
This Glen Helen race will be a great chance to get out n see these bolt on cars that have been approved by LOORS.

 

[ALBANATE]

Can I get a head start since my car is an 800 and not an XP???

Nate
Alba Racing

 

[rappy60guy]

This is good stuff. I'm converting one of my cars to compete in these regional XP races! Looking forward to getting out n mixing it up w Bryan n the Rockstar team.
This Glen Helen race will be a great chance to get out n see these bolt on cars that have been approved by LOORS.

Todd what info you have on our xp cars in relation to loors rules. How far off are we

 

[Seaver]

Casey, I think most are closer than I am. I will have to add some tubing. First: needs to be at least .083 1 3/4 main cage .095 even better.
The door area is we're I feel most if us need work. They want a tube (1") around perimeter of door jamb, then X that out. Finally a 1 1/4" bar vertically down over the stock hip bar barb that sticks up outta rocker area. This is of course for side impact protection. Remember will will be racing at much higher speeds than WORCS.
Also, we need a diagonal bar over head even if you already have one bar front to back in center of roof.
.060 is what they want our sides and roof skinned with. Nerf bars will be required soon I believe as they will help in protecting the stock fuel tank.
Of course they want the cage tied into rear bumper.
Relocating the radiator is ok.
Seats will need to be bolted in. No stock seat bases.
These are all things that Bryan did to the Rockstar cars that have been
approved by LOORS.

 

[Dirty]

Casey, I think most are closer than I am. I will have to add some tubing. First: needs to be at least .083 1 3/4 main cage .095 even better.
The door area is we're I feel most if us need work. They want a tube (1") around perimeter of door jamb, then X that out. Finally a 1 1/4" bar vertically down over the stock hip bar barb that sticks up outta rocker area. This is of course for side impact protection. Remember will will be racing at much higher speeds than WORCS.
Also, we need a diagonal bar over head even if you already have one bar front to back in center of roof.
.060 is what they want our sides and roof skinned with. Nerf bars will be required soon I believe as they will help in protecting the stock fuel tank.
Of course they want the cage tied into rear bumper.
Relocating the radiator is ok.
Seats will need to be bolted in. No stock seat bases.
These are all things that Bryan did to the Rockstar cars that have been
approved by LOORS.

Can't wait to see you at the regional Seaver!

 

[Dirty]

This weekend at Glen Helen!

 

[goob]

I would be there but, they are not allowing motor modifications.

Seaver I was told by Lee that I would have to have 1 1/2" tubing on the doors. Let me know if you have heard different please.

I sure would like to see a rule book for this class. It would surely be helpful to to us racers. Seems to be Alot of mismatched information on rules.

 

[Dirty]

Here is the RESULTS LINK for Round 4

http://www.mylaps.com/results/showevent.jsp?id=812176

 

[JoeyD23]

Thanks for posting KJ!!!

 

[Seaver]

Goob, I will talk with lee at glen Helen. He is going off current UTV rule book. What I said was what Bryan Carr did and was approved. I'm not sure If Lee realizes these differences that we have. I will work on this.

 

[rappy60guy]

Goob, I will talk with lee at glen Helen. He is going off current UTV rule book. What I said was what Bryan Carr did and was approved. I'm not sure If Lee realizes these differences that we have. I will work on this.

Thanks for putting in all the work for the rest of us Todd. See ya at anza