like i said, not gonna be fun breaking a weaker tranny. 1200cc or less is best. im not gonna max out cc's. not even gonna mod the motor, i want reliability. rog is correct about them all putting out similar hp numbers. im going v-twin with a stronger trans ( than an r1 ). these cars are gonna put out plenty of power so a good driver will make up whatever, if any power advantage there is ( in stock form under 1200cc's ). if the r1 had a stronger trans and better torque id run one. thats not the case.
SR1 suggested rules are up!
- Thread starter 450grl
- Start date
"Since it's a new class, we are trying to keep the class as tight and similar as possible - as a result, we are, for now, only allowing a straight chain drive (no diffs, no FNR boxes) system."
you can have chain drive and still have FNR. your motor plates are what determines the type of motor, hence proprietary, like Nestors karts are.
whether good or bad, that is what you had to use. and I know you guys don't make bad parts. just saying, any builder can make their own motor mount.
Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking you wanting to setup a new class, but with all rules, there should be a panel of Racer/builders to determine this.
and be separated for DEZ and short course. wihich is usually safety related only, but still flexible enough to run the same car in either type of race.
Motor placement should be the least of anyones worries, just because that works in your chassis, does not mean it works in someone else chassis.
an inch forward or backward or side to side, should not be a spec. an example would be a rule where you had to have a fuel cell out back behind the driver, anyone that knows anything, knows this really screws up the balance, especially when full or empty, the more centered the weight is in a UTV, the better it handles.
and for Joey, the new 250 adult TK ones are the same way, has to be Nestors spec chassis ( proprietary) , when anyone can build them within size/saftey requirements. Dejong, Fabshool, Bajakart, HRT whoever.
This is why the mods are more fun to watch, IMO
Exactly!!! You will never please everyone either so just do it.
vrod is my choice, followed by the rc51, tl1000 is the more available v-twin. i know of some ducatis floating around too. ill stay out of this product pitch now ( which is fine, unless they will provide diagrams to build to spec on your own, then its not a product pitch ). ill respond in other streetbike powered racing posts.
LOL, if anything, this is entertaining to read.
Here's my 1 cent opinion.
First of all, I have NOT read through the rules. This is just an impression based on the comments I have read on the thread.
Corry, I commend you guys (and gal) for trying to get this moving forward.
However, I have mixed emotions about it.
You compared it to the Super Lites in LOORS. IMO, the way it is spec'ed to only have an R1 engine, you have created something just like Super Lites. I think it will achieve your goals of driver skill being the largest component. However, as far as I know, you don't have this confirmed with any race series. I think you need to be working with a promoter. And, if you can get a commitment from a promoter, you could pull this off.
However, to build a set of rules before having a commitment from a promoter, seems very difficult. There are definitely a lot of people that want to build "swap" race cars, but I think in the current UTV market this mainly driven by cost. Many people have the ability to build things themselves, and I think as a niche hobby, we have a lot of tallented people. I think the tighter spec class is not what most people are looking for. They are looking to go racing on a smaller budget. By limiting their choice on drivetrain, I think that will ultimately drive prices up.
Supply and Demand. Sure there may be plenty of R1 engines available now. What if this class takes off? Guess where used R1 engine prices are going to go? Straight up! $$$
OK, enough from me for now. Like I said, good job for spearheading the idea. I think it has pluses and minuses.
Ultimately, the market, which is Joe and Suzy customer, will determine where the market goes.
Here's my 1 cent opinion.
First of all, I have NOT read through the rules. This is just an impression based on the comments I have read on the thread.
Corry, I commend you guys (and gal) for trying to get this moving forward.
However, I have mixed emotions about it.
You compared it to the Super Lites in LOORS. IMO, the way it is spec'ed to only have an R1 engine, you have created something just like Super Lites. I think it will achieve your goals of driver skill being the largest component. However, as far as I know, you don't have this confirmed with any race series. I think you need to be working with a promoter. And, if you can get a commitment from a promoter, you could pull this off.
However, to build a set of rules before having a commitment from a promoter, seems very difficult. There are definitely a lot of people that want to build "swap" race cars, but I think in the current UTV market this mainly driven by cost. Many people have the ability to build things themselves, and I think as a niche hobby, we have a lot of tallented people. I think the tighter spec class is not what most people are looking for. They are looking to go racing on a smaller budget. By limiting their choice on drivetrain, I think that will ultimately drive prices up.
Supply and Demand. Sure there may be plenty of R1 engines available now. What if this class takes off? Guess where used R1 engine prices are going to go? Straight up! $$$
OK, enough from me for now. Like I said, good job for spearheading the idea. I think it has pluses and minuses.
Ultimately, the market, which is Joe and Suzy customer, will determine where the market goes.
Weller Racing
I Make Things Go Fast - Official UTVUnderground Sp
Thanks Court! Like Corry said, it may not be for everyone, but we need to start somewhere..... After we get a class established we will be open for the addition of other specs. Thanks for the support!
So far the SR1 class is locked in for M4SX and we are working on some local stuff here in AZ.
JoeyD23
#utvunderground
I spoke with Ken Johnson a few minutes ago about lots of other good things and this topic came up. He is excited to see this class and assuming SXS Stadium Series / M4SX is here for 2010 this SR1 class will be a part of the schedule!!!
Again guys, lets not lose sight here. Weller created a "product" and has put forth the effort to spear head a NEW UTV RACING CLASS. Everyone will have an opinion and everyone's opinion should be heard. But lets not try to over think and analyze this class before it even happens. Weller has a great idea and great start on laying some rules out. It will take time to develop and work the bugs out to accomodate everyone's ideas. But until there are some series guys with streetbike cars ready and willing to race I think we should allow it to develop the way Weller is intending.
I guess what I am saying is, I know Weller has built a car, I know Mike Valentine has a R1 Rhino that is certainly race worthy and ready to race, and we all know Brett Stetler has a serious R1 race worhy car. Who else has one? Who else is serious about building and racing one? Lets not all bench race here and shoot the class down before anything even happens.
Troy you have some great insight nto building these cars, you also have some strong knowledge of UTV's in general. I would suggest that you and Jason / Corry actually speak on the phone as I encouraged Mike Valentine to do. Collectively if you all put your heads together I am confident everyone can come to a solid solution and agreement as to where this class should go and how it should be set up.
Again guys, lets not lose sight here. Weller created a "product" and has put forth the effort to spear head a NEW UTV RACING CLASS. Everyone will have an opinion and everyone's opinion should be heard. But lets not try to over think and analyze this class before it even happens. Weller has a great idea and great start on laying some rules out. It will take time to develop and work the bugs out to accomodate everyone's ideas. But until there are some series guys with streetbike cars ready and willing to race I think we should allow it to develop the way Weller is intending.
I guess what I am saying is, I know Weller has built a car, I know Mike Valentine has a R1 Rhino that is certainly race worthy and ready to race, and we all know Brett Stetler has a serious R1 race worhy car. Who else has one? Who else is serious about building and racing one? Lets not all bench race here and shoot the class down before anything even happens.
Troy you have some great insight nto building these cars, you also have some strong knowledge of UTV's in general. I would suggest that you and Jason / Corry actually speak on the phone as I encouraged Mike Valentine to do. Collectively if you all put your heads together I am confident everyone can come to a solid solution and agreement as to where this class should go and how it should be set up.
I understand the Spec idea fully, I came from a similar form of racing and it ended up with disputes about every other race, due to alot of grey areas within the rules. So I totally understand where this is headed and I think it is a good thing. I am not trying to push for my car to be allowed, I understand that rules are rules. That being said I have had my car done for a little over a year, and tried to follow what rules I could find when building my car, like the M4SX outlaw class, that I understand never really took off. I mounted the motor between the seats, kept all suspension pick up points and went with a + 6" long travel kit. The cage will pass tech no problem. The only thing that is different is the FNR box and now the WELLER mounting plates (which weren't available back then). I really would like somewhere to race and will take all of the comments, that I need to change my car, or that I could have waited, but who really knew 2 years ago that this would be here. Again totally excited about the class, and not trying to take anything away from what Weller is trying to do I commend them 100% for taking this on.
Just would like to know for sure if my only real options to be able to race are redoing the rear end and pulling the motor and remounting with a Weller kit.
Thanks,
Mike Valentine
Just would like to know for sure if my only real options to be able to race are redoing the rear end and pulling the motor and remounting with a Weller kit.
Thanks,
Mike Valentine
450grl
The First Lady of SXS - UTVUnderground Approved
Mike, check your PM's...... 
Well, we are going to concentrate on getting the SR1's up and running - one thing at a time.
I have been on the forums long enough to know that these threads can get out of hand, and one can spend a LOT of time answering and quoting and arguing back and forth....it's just not something I feel is terribly productive. At this point, I think we have laid the class out there for those who are interested, and for those who aren't, there are still plenty of other classes to race in. We will continue to post updates, etc....and pics/vids when we get them.
For anyone who wants to discuss this class, please feel free to call either Jason (480-507-4771) or I (480-703-6830) or drop me an e-mail at cweller@penskeautomotive.com .
Thanks again for the support!
Well, we are going to concentrate on getting the SR1's up and running - one thing at a time.
I have been on the forums long enough to know that these threads can get out of hand, and one can spend a LOT of time answering and quoting and arguing back and forth....it's just not something I feel is terribly productive. At this point, I think we have laid the class out there for those who are interested, and for those who aren't, there are still plenty of other classes to race in. We will continue to post updates, etc....and pics/vids when we get them.
For anyone who wants to discuss this class, please feel free to call either Jason (480-507-4771) or I (480-703-6830) or drop me an e-mail at cweller@penskeautomotive.com .
Thanks again for the support!
Mike, check your PM's......
Well, we are going to concentrate on getting the SR1's up and running - one thing at a time.
I have been on the forums long enough to know that these threads can get out of hand, and one can spend a LOT of time answering and quoting and arguing back and forth....it's just not something I feel is terribly productive. At this point, I think we have laid the class out there for those who are interested, and for those who aren't, there are still plenty of other classes to race in. We will continue to post updates, etc....and pics/vids when we get them.
For anyone who wants to discuss this class, please feel free to call either Jason (480-507-4771) or I (480-703-6830) or drop me an e-mail at cweller@penskeautomotive.com .
Thanks again for the support!
Thanks Jason / Corry...
the stripping shop
RACER - UTVUnderground Approved
On the seatbelt rule, should have 2 d-rings for the wrap around ones & are sternum straps aloud.
Window net rule shouldn't let the push pin style, ours blew apart when we barrel rolled the car needs to be a latch style. on the seat set up should require to 2 seats so you can still be recognize it being a sidexside car and be able to race other series ex. bitd & lucas once they enforce the 2 seat rule.
On the motor rule easy to keep everyone from cheating make a motor buy rule ex $500 motor swap, I get your motor you get mine or $1000, you get the my motor R1 are suppose to be cheap right.
On the roll cage any were the A/B pilar connect must have 3 connection to them so if one weld breaks in severe roll over you have 2 other weld connection to back them up keep the driver compartment safe.on the chassis rule need to put in there keep stock frame rails so your gusset kit will work.
When you get this going the Weller cant be tech inspector, president, racer, rule enforcer, and judge, you will be to bias need to get other people involved that will help the sport evolve. Look at UTVRA/ Cory, remember you cant be over 800cc? We now race with a 1000cc Articat there was no panel no nothing one person makes decision and is final. dont make the same mistake.
Window net rule shouldn't let the push pin style, ours blew apart when we barrel rolled the car needs to be a latch style. on the seat set up should require to 2 seats so you can still be recognize it being a sidexside car and be able to race other series ex. bitd & lucas once they enforce the 2 seat rule.
On the motor rule easy to keep everyone from cheating make a motor buy rule ex $500 motor swap, I get your motor you get mine or $1000, you get the my motor R1 are suppose to be cheap right.
On the roll cage any were the A/B pilar connect must have 3 connection to them so if one weld breaks in severe roll over you have 2 other weld connection to back them up keep the driver compartment safe.on the chassis rule need to put in there keep stock frame rails so your gusset kit will work.
When you get this going the Weller cant be tech inspector, president, racer, rule enforcer, and judge, you will be to bias need to get other people involved that will help the sport evolve. Look at UTVRA/ Cory, remember you cant be over 800cc? We now race with a 1000cc Articat there was no panel no nothing one person makes decision and is final. dont make the same mistake.
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no, they all are suppose to have two seats, but some are hidden, you are suppose to have a stock or matching seat for opposite the driver, but we know that doesn't happen, you are also suppose to have a metal engine cover and that does not happen either. and m4sx is worse, allowing opening doors
yes the sternum straps are allowed, even though they do not care for them in Lucas. GM buckle for the window nets are preferred, but some others have been grandfathered in.
I agree a board/panel should work out the rules.
Wild Earp
50Fifty Racer - UTVUnderground Approved
My passenger seat weighs like 33 lbs with brackets. I didnt know most everyone didnt have one at my first race with LOORRS, no wonder I was so much heavier!
I personally dont think we need the second seat. You cant really tell they dont have them from the stands. The fans dont care if it doesnt have a second seat, they just want to see fast cars, and great racing action. A second seat does nothing for that IMO.
The 1000cc cars dont run in the Pro class, atleast not in LOORRS, and I dont there has even been any running.
The rules are only a starting point, and I know they are designed for cars that have already passed LOORRS/CORR tech, so they should have most if not all of those things that were mentioned. Well need all that stuff anyways if LOORRS picks up the class.
I personally dont think we need the second seat. You cant really tell they dont have them from the stands. The fans dont care if it doesnt have a second seat, they just want to see fast cars, and great racing action. A second seat does nothing for that IMO.
The 1000cc cars dont run in the Pro class, atleast not in LOORRS, and I dont there has even been any running.
The rules are only a starting point, and I know they are designed for cars that have already passed LOORRS/CORR tech, so they should have most if not all of those things that were mentioned. Well need all that stuff anyways if LOORRS picks up the class.
see you have an opinion too,
but all require two seats in all short course series. I think single cyl machines should be able to drop weight, or the twins weigh more, but apparantly that ain't gonna happen, and we have brought this up before, Corry and I and others.total width got changed for Dragon fire this year also, so if they wanna do an R1, do they have to redo thier suspension????
do you start to see why a panel of members is needed?
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