Should BITD Have Let Max Gordon (8yr Old) Race??

[the stripping shop]

Why was RG suspended?

helicopter picked robby and co driver up at parker during race when he broke down. But this goes to show you how casey bends or breaks rules. I have been on both sides of the rules its called "I win". Don't play the game of "I win" with casey or corey.

 

[bluediamond]

With the growing amount of race shops and teams that are fabricating and selling UTV parts now a days i think this will become more common. TT and open class drivers racing/co driving with thier kids. Brenthals and the like. I think these enteies should be handled by a case by case basis depending in the kids experience. There are plenty of kids in Mod cart and the Worcs youth 700 class that.would be experienced enough to race BITD with a parent navigating.

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

Outside of a handful here (including Joey, Lacrecia, etc.) providing anything remotely resembling the frankly adult insight required to responsibly debate or heaven forbid 'administer' an extremely dangerous racing program?...the balance of this thread reads as if an 8-year old himself could safely promote desert racing with the integrity needed to boot.
Even scarier is the fact that Joey puts himself out here to state or 'hopefully' debate the obvious..and immediately most every racer, sponsor or manufacturer 'runs for the hills' (cover) similar to every other instance when anything of substance involving safety, rule making or enforcement is brought forward.

The sport isn't being respected due to there being a whole lot of us out here not respecting those in it (period).

It isn't that we don't like or even love you as brothers in Christ.

It is the fact that you are not leaving behind absolutely anything that the next generation can build off of by being literally afraid of standing up for even the most obvious of preventable matters likely to get somebody hurt really bad or killed.

This is NOT how you build racing legacies for the next generation. If you think that I'm wrong about this, ask anybody that is over 55 or so if I'm full of crap in regards to the above and for God/these upcoming children's sake LISTEN to what they have to say.

A whole lot of people with good intentions have put a good share of their lives in to leaving something behind for 'somebody' in this class.

Please get your heads out of your collective arses, FINALLY stand up for something (safety-wise) and allow these many pioneers of the sport to point to something when this is all said and done.

 

[fortune46x]

Keep the rules as they are, require the notary , obviously because Robby's name or the Gordans name for that matter is what it is in offroad racing the exception was made due to the obvious skill the kid has. If driver talent is a question - figure out a licensing requirement for those under 18 that want to drive.

I'm with everyone else on the safety aspect of things - compliance is key and no exceptions should be made in equipment.

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

(Fortune46x)".the exception was made due to the obvious skill the kid has.."

While not picking on you in particular as the above sentiment has been (shockingly) echoed many other times in this thread...but...an 8 year old has what 'skills' doing what here???

It's as if an entire class of racers (save very few) have been so accustomed to suspending reality in regards to ANY common sense involving the safe running of these carts...that not a single statement can be made in this sport which causes any one racer to contemplate absolute anything of value in it.

Throw in Lecrecia's obvious concern for even the suitability of the car itself..and one wonders..is life really this hard to navigate..or are there multiple generations now out there struggling with even..the basics?

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

Hint:
The most effective way to put an end to this madness is to shift these safety-related responsibilities squarely away from the only group (long) charged with building/promoting this racing legacy. The vast majority of the racers in this class are obviously not yet professionally competent to safely self govern by proxy.

Unfortunately, those knowing full well the stakes here 'are'..and their silence to date has been in one word: shameful.

Either the manufacturers step up here 'yesterday' and nip this in the bud absent one single aftermarket company evidently giving a hoot less...or nary a one of them will (re)gain the respect of (m)any of us out here ever again.

It is that simple.

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

Furthermore, please respect the fact that a handful of us out here have been battling these very issues (often with offroad leadership and the manufacturers) long before many of you received your first kiss:
https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-Releases/2003/CPSC-To-Hold-Regional-ATV-Safety-Hearing-in-West-Virginia-ATV-Injuries-Double-in-Five-year-Period-Deaths-Continue-To-Climb-/

This is not about faulting anybody for doing anything in terms of what happened that day.
Joey did NOT (which bears repeating as it is my sentiment exactly) start this thread to go after little Max, the Gordons, Cory or the manufacturers.

He DID start it (I assume) to illustrate the importance of young/upcoming racers (of all ages) understanding the history of this sport and their place in it. Bottom line: Celebrity ambassadors such as the Gordons or young people such as Max in terms of safety in this sport were never developed despite even one CEO totaling a UTV before the entire world and his ears were even dry in the boardroom. It got so bad that my wife and I were even training kids to operate atvs out of our own pockets. Side-by-side training? Don't even get me started.

This sport is continually under a microscope. It always will be with this much power right out of the box and with a single foot/fingers being the only "skill" required. How many of you remember even safety-related debate/training involving the 'Ace' (intentionally) being nastily attacked when it hit the market?
Newsflash: The untold number of deaths AND MAIIMINGS which many of us now inconsequential 'old farts' sadly witnessed in the 80's and 90's were largely KIDS. Putting them in a roll cage and quadrupling the horsepower WILL NOT CHANGE THE GENERAL PUBLIC'S OR MORE IMPORTANTLY OUR GOVERNMENT'S PERCEPTION OF THIS SPORT.

Freedom comes with a price.
Either understand your role in preserving it and passing it down or don't cry when you lose it and (sadly) experience these horrors all over again.

 

[fortune46x]

(Fortune46x)".the exception was made due to the obvious skill the kid has.."

While not picking on you in particular as the above sentiment has been (shockingly) echoed many other times in this thread...but...an 8 year old has what 'skills' doing what here???

It's as if an entire class of racers (save very few) have been so accustomed to suspending reality in regards to ANY common sense involving the safe running of these carts...that not a single statement can be made in this sport which causes any one racer to contemplate absolute anything of value in it.

Throw in Lecrecia's obvious concern for even the suitability of the car itself..and one wonders..is life really this hard to navigate..or are there multiple generations now out there struggling with even..the basics?

Not taking it as singling me out - no worries there, I think Joey posted this up as a feeler to see what people thought, not to cause ill feelings or to bag on anyone.

The way I see it (and I'm not a desert racer and know very limited about the classes and rules) is you have a guy like Robby , raising his son in the motorsports world that his dad raised him in and he grew into - this kid has more time and experience in the professional offroad world then most of us and I'm sure from the time he was old enough (and there are videos out there) he was strapping into a Kart of some sort and driving and being taught what to do. Seeing where he placed his Skillset is clearly on par to do what he did - especially driving the underpowered h2 car.

Running Short course I've seen fully grown 30/40/50 year old adults with less common sense then 18year old kids , they have no clue what they're doing , how to do what they're doing correctly and are dangerous on the track. Its scary sometimes pulling up to a land rush start next to these people knowing fully well what kind of stupid you're next to.

What I do agree with is the car wasn't suited for this racing. There should be no exceptions in equipment safety imo.

 

[kornfed]

Well we broke at Bluewater and he finished so there you go...

More to the point, I think there should be an age limit and there should definitely be an age limit if there are other types of cars on the course. If it is UTV only, the car is fully tech ready and the driver has some skills, then I say 14 is the limit.

If I came up on Max, I would back off. If something happened while passing, I would not be able to live with myself. Regardless of Robbie ultimately being responsible, it would be beyond devastating. Max is such a great kid and he is going to be a great racer one day, but it is not his time yet and this is not his class. Couple of years from now, he will be showing us a wheel and passing us anyway. Let's give him some time. All the respect in the world for Robbie and his family, but I think this should be a one and done for Max until a little older.

2 cents...

 

[Sandman365]

It'sYourLegacy is back? Let the "shitshow" begin.

 

[ROTR]

Agree with kornfed!

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

"..What I do agree with is the car wasn't suited for this racing. There should be no exceptions in equipment safety imo."

Does 'safety' involving 'the cars' really matter anymore...when the vast majority of those (cough) 'professionally' driving them don't even possess the integrity to come down on one side or the other of an 8 year old driving a (questionably) safe car right beside them?

You're right (sandman365)..."pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" here in 'Oz' (1900 class racing).

Every single one of the sponsors in this class should be held responsible (boycotted) as well for obviously not having the guts to speak out any more than their sponsored drivers, owners or OEM manufacturers.

 

[450grl]

I didn't race this race, but no, I don't believe at 8 year old has any business racing in this class. No matter whose kid it is.....there is a reason the legal driving age is 16 years old. There are motor skills and decision making skills that are still developing in an 8 year old....not to mention things like strength to drive properly and the muscle growth/strength to hold a body together in case of a wreck. I'm pretty shocked that he was allowed to be out in that field....they DO have kids classes available, and that is where kids should be racing until they are old enough to race with the adults.

 

[#xpwarrior]

I have had mixed feelings on this for days. Yes, it is a feel good story. I am very proud of Max and how well he did.

I do have to say that it shows some flaws in BITD and UTVRA. A racing organization not having a minimum age requirement seems absurd to me. BITD needs to address this before there is an accident with a child in the vehicle and the environmentalists and other groups that oppose off-road racing use it to shut us down.

Secondly, I protested the Artic Cat formally and was blown off by Corey. I got the "I didn't want to turn them away" answer. That is very bad for the sport. The car didn't have safety features and equipment but was allowed to race just as Lacrecia stated. I told BITD officials but heard nothing beyond it was noted. Plus that car was racing 1900 when it clearly was a model not released for public purchase and should have been 2900 at best. If a participant is banned for a year why were they allowed to race?

Thirdly, as I wrote in my race report I was door to door and wheel to wheel on the pavement next to the river. I could have held my line and prevented the AC from getting in front of me but that would have been dangerous. On day 1 a similar circumstance unfolded with Guthrie and Burnett and one of them ended up flipping. I didn't want to be the guy that caused Max Gordon to wreck and get injured. It was on my mind and discussed with my codriver as we approached the turn. I did the right thing for my safety and the occupants of the other vehicle.

Personally there needs to be a minimum age rule even with a parent signature. The rules in the rule book need to be adhered to. Allowing cars on the course that do not meet safety standards is putting the sport at risk. Opening doors, blue strobe, fuel cell strapped to plastic...these are all things everyone can see in the photos and those that saw the car in person know of the other issues.

I respect Robby Gordon and all he has done. This was a foul by BITD and UTVRA, simple as that.

 

[NIKAL]

I have had mixed feelings on this for days. Yes, it is a feel good story. I am very proud of Max and how well he did.

I do have to say that it shows some flaws in BITD and UTVRA. A racing organization not having a minimum age requirement seems absurd to me. BITD needs to address this before there is an accident with a child in the vehicle and the environmentalists and other groups that oppose off-road racing use it to shut us down.

Secondly, I protested the Artic Cat formally and was blown off by Corey. I got the "I didn't want to turn them away" answer. That is very bad for the sport. The car didn't have safety features and equipment but was allowed to race just as Lacrecia stated. I told BITD officials but heard nothing beyond it was noted. Plus that car was racing 1900 when it clearly was a model not released for public purchase and should have been 2900 at best. If a participant is banned for a year why were they allowed to race?

Thirdly, as I wrote in my race report I was door to door and wheel to wheel on the pavement next to the river. I could have held my line and prevented the AC from getting in front of me but that would have been dangerous. On day 1 a similar circumstance unfolded with Guthrie and Burnett and one of them ended up flipping. I didn't want to be the guy that caused Max Gordon to wreck and get injured. It was on my mind and discussed with my codriver as we approached the turn. I did the right thing for my safety and the occupants of the other vehicle.

Personally there needs to be a minimum age rule even with a parent signature. The rules in the rule book need to be adhered to. Allowing cars on the course that do not meet safety standards is putting the sport at risk. Opening doors, blue strobe, fuel cell strapped to plastic...these are all things everyone can see in the photos and those that saw the car in person know of the other issues.

I respect Robby Gordon and all he has done. This was a foul by BITD and UTVRA, simple as that.

Why does everyone think Robby did this with Max because of Bob dyng? My understanding this was thought and planned before Bob died. This race was chose because of the location (Robby's got a place there, if I'm remembering right Max's mom and family are from the Parker area. This was a short race, with no other vehicles racing in the same heat, so less worry of there being issues with faster traffic.

I agree with almost everything xpwarrior said. But just to be clear this age topic with BITD has been this way for as long as I remember and BITD has never had an issue. A course I don't think they have been 8 years old, but early teens have rode a drove before. But to be clear, this was not some special privilege Robby was given.

Again when it comes to the rules, UTVRA should be enforcing the rules as written. If they can't manage that, then BITD should take over. But then again BITD does not want too, because it not only one more worry for Casey, but if that cage was to fail, or if one of the cars running unsafe fuel cells (there's allot of them!) Casey can pass the buck and put the blaim right on the UTVRA.

Again the rules have been falling on deft ears or have been looked the other way by the UTVRA for along time. I do believe in my gut if this was any other race, or a race with other classes in the same heat, they would not allow it to race without some of the more obvious safety items fixed.

As far as not wanting to pass Max in the tight area where Marc rolled, was a good choice, but I'm guessing you would have done the same with any racer, as you did not want to crash. You were racing smart.

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

"..Why does everyone think Robby did this with Max because of Bob dyng?.."

I am going to speak for "everyone" here and say that nothing be discussed is or has been about Max, Robby or the Gordon family...period. Joey made that pretty clear from the beginning. Anything that they chose to do that day with the blessing of those who allowed it and with the further blessing of those racing them knowing full well that this class is a sham safety/rule-wise...is their business. A Dad and his child having fun...end of story.
This thread is about flushing out the racers, sponsors and manufacturers who frankly have been lying to us as to what they truly support:
Money, fame, 'fun', the almighty dollar..
"..or.."
Safety, safety, safety and everything else secondary behind a safety legacy driving/protecting our next generation of racers.

"...But just to be clear this age topic with BITD has been this way for as long as I remember and BITD has never had an issue. A course I don't think they have been 8 years old, but early teens have rode a drove before. But to be clear, this was not some special privilege Robby was given..."

The point here is not "BITD" having an issue with anything.
It is the racers, sponsors and manufacturers stepping in where BITD refuses to WHEN AN 8-YEAR OLD TAKES THE WHEEL/GAS PEDAL IN ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS SPORTS ON THE PLANET **MADE EVEN MORE DANGEROUS** EVERY SINGLE YEAR WITH UNCHECKED QUANTUM JUMPS IN HORSEPOWER.
Any "special privilege" mentioned here has been more centered around the car entered and it's race-worthiness as, again, determined by race officials not the entrants (who bear no responsibility for same in a legitimately administered racing class).

".. when it comes to the rules, UTVRA should be enforcing the rules as written. If they can't manage that, then BITD should take over. But then again BITD does not want too, because it not only one more worry for Casey, but if that cage was to fail, or if one of the cars running unsafe fuel cells (there's allot of them!) Casey can pass the buck and put the blaim right on the UTVRA.

Thank you for (finally) summing up the state of UTV racing IN 2016. You have just authored the summary closing argument for the lawyers representing the next racer (or fan) killed/maimed while class racers themselves, sponsors and manufacturers claim to have not seen a single thing coming. Perhaps we can send this thread to their family members for some measure of comfort while we insist to them that we all did everything that we could possibly do (for years) to finally make this sport just as safe as it could be .

"..Again, the rules have been falling on deft ears or have been looked the other way by the UTVRA for along time. I do believe in my gut if this was any other race, or a race with other classes in the same heat, they would not allow it to race without some of the more obvious safety items fixed.

...and what are we all going to do about it.
I, for one, am noting every sponsor of every car in this class and refusing to do business with them (ever). I will literally tear in to every single manufacturer with this irresponsible story of neglect for anybody's welfare at every opportunity afforded. The racers themselves (especially the top ones eerily silent in this thread now) have had all the power here to stop this at every opportunity. Instead, they have been nastily fighting back at anybody (including Joey) who has ever insisted that they do so for years now. Whatever happens next will be 110% their responsibility with this much (non)discussion involving safety not to mention constant angry shootings of the messengers in every single instance that safety legacies are brought forward.

"...As far as not wanting to pass Max in the tight area where Marc rolled, was a good choice, but I'm guessing you would have done the same with any racer, as you did not want to crash. You were racing smart.

On second thought...
...please don't bother arguing whether an 8-year old should be racing adults in the first place.
I'm really beginning to believe that 99% of the people both following and making money/simply having fun in this sport have/are...(I don't want to say it).
Please pray that God has mercy on what is about to happen here.

 

[BiggJim]

...and what are we all going to do about it.
I, for one, am noting every sponsor of every car in this class and refusing to do business with them (ever). I will literally tear in to every single manufacturer with this irresponsible story of neglect for anybody's welfare at every opportunity afforded. The racers themselves (especially the top ones eerily silent in this thread now) have had all the power here to stop this at every opportunity. Instead, they have been nastily fighting back at anybody (including Joey) who has ever insisted that they do so for years now. Whatever happens next will be 110% their responsibility with this much (non)discussion involving safety not to mention constant angry shootings of the messengers in every single instance that safety legacies are brought forward.

I guess you dont plan on owning a UTV or anything UTV related then. Pretty sure every single UTV brand aftermarket product was represented at this event.

 

[CSG]

of-course the sponsors and manufacturers are after money, it would be silly to think otherwise. I know I don't go to work to help people. I go to work to make money. I deal with lots of stuff that can kill people: electricity, cobalt, cesium, etc. & I do my very best to keep people safe, but I still do it for money.

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

I guess you dont plan on owning a UTV or anything UTV related then. Pretty sure every single UTV brand aftermarket product was represented at this event.

Pretty arrogant statement given that any current or potential UTV owner with an internet connection has no-brainer debunked that lie for..how long now? Do west coast folk really believe that the world or 'civilized' racing actually 'ends' two or three states east of the left coast?

Aren't you pretty well heavily connected with Class 1900 racing and one of the very people not only asked to weigh in here (with authority) but indeed able to make some kind of difference (safety-wise) through your LOCAL first hand voice before the inevitable sadly happens? Or is everybody (now) claiming that safety has been long ignored in this class...a bald faced liar? Why don't you (now) go after them, instead?

Or is it more productive to insist that us mere peon 'fans' must do business with those not obviously giving a rip about safety in the sport that they profit from/enjoy...while THEY refuse to speak to it lest their PERSONAL 'associations' with those similarly silent here be 'jeopardized'???

Boycott 'em folks.
This thread is but further proof that not a single one of them deserves your money and of a further arrogance that you have no other options both before or after any inevitable carnage begins.

 

[BiggJim]

Pretty arrogant statement given that any current or potential UTV owner with an internet connection has no-brainer debunked that lie for..how long now? Do west coast folk really believe that the world or 'civilized' racing actually 'ends' two or three states east of the left coast?

Aren't you pretty well heavily connected with Class 1900 racing and one of the very people not only asked to weigh in here (with authority) but indeed able to make some kind of difference (safety-wise) through your LOCAL first hand voice before the inevitable sadly happens? Or is everybody (now) claiming that safety has been long ignored in this class...a bald faced liar? Why don't you (now) go after them, instead?

Or is it more productive to insist that us mere peon 'fans' must do business with those not obviously giving a rip about safety in the sport that they profit from/enjoy...while THEY refuse to speak to it lest their PERSONAL 'associations' with those similarly silent here be 'jeopardized'???

Boycott 'em folks.
This thread is but further proof that not a single one of them deserves your money and of a further arrogance that you have no other options both before or after any inevitable carnage begins.

I cant say I ever looked at the Max Gordon car very close. I was under the impression it met all the necessary rules. With what I know about UTVRA it doesn't surprise me that he allowed the car to race. He will generally allow a 1 time pass with the exception of don't bring the car back till the rules are met. I really cant speak for what was out of spec because again I didn't really look at the car close. Is Max a little young to be behind a wheel??? Thats not up to me....Based on what I seen the kid had more skill that alot of the field....not to mention a co-driver that probably has more experience than all of the field. Could he have gotten hurt competing? Absolutely.....he could get hurt riding his bike. I would imagine if a normal 8 year old showed up with no experience things would have gone different.