Mint 400 UTV/DSR1 race update

[BiggJim]

To me racing BITD is unsafe as long as your starting in front of the TT's. To me this is also what gives the UTV class a bad name on places like RDC. This is what keeps you guys as a "Side Show" or "Golf Cart class".

I generally agree with most of what you have to say....But I don't agree one bit with this one.....Most of the unlimited guys that i have had run ins with on RDC are pompus dickheads that probably grew up as spoiled rich brat....and when they don't agree with something they stomp their feet and pout.....Those guys will NEVER see a UTV as a race car...NEVER. It don't make a difference where we start. Also...the ones always cry'n "just wait...someones gonna get killed" are usually the ones that are charging thru the dust VIA GPS....not giving a second thought as to whats on the other side..... Before we raced the 1000 i really didn't think starting in the back was a good idea...now after baja it wouldn't matter to me either way. It would just mean I get to sleep in longer.

 

[Oc1]

While I'm new to racing BITD and we didn't make it very far at Parker I would like to see the full milages as well. Desert racing is all about pushing yourselves and your equipment. We spend just as much time and energy as any class out there to make it to the races and should get just as many miles. Hell desert racing was started by limited classes. Everybody from class 11 to trick trucks should get to test themselves on the same merits.

 

[NIKAL]

I generally agree with most of what you have to say....But I don't agree one bit with this one.....Most of the unlimited guys that i have had run ins with on RDC are pompus dickheads that probably grew up as spoiled rich brat....and when they don't agree with something they stomp their feet and pout.....Those guys will NEVER see a UTV as a race car...NEVER. It don't make a difference where we start. Also...the ones always cry'n "just wait...someones gonna get killed" are usually the ones that are charging thru the dust VIA GPS....not giving a second thought as to whats on the other side..... Before we raced the 1000 i really didn't think starting in the back was a good idea...now after baja it wouldn't matter to me either way. It would just mean I get to sleep in longer.

Biggjim its a fact that after the Baja 1000, the UTV's got way more acceptance then they ever had before. That one race did more for the UTV class then a years worth of racing BITD has.

A perfect example of the good credit the UTV class got was the fact that they started in the back of the 4 wheel class at the Baja 1000, did the whole course, and did not take the easy shortcut offered. And the top two cars finished in the top 30's in the overall standings. Even guys like Fishdood on RDC who has always been against UTV's racing in the desert. Said he was completely impresses and took back some of what he has said in the past.

Now an example of bad credit the UTV class got is when Robby was racing BITD in the Truggy and was trying to keep McCachren behind him for the overall, but could not charge hard as he was catching and trying to pass UTV's with 80 miles to go. Robby's comment was the UTV's kick up a ton of dust and being I was the first one on the road, I was the first one to catch them. I had to slow and be more cautious as I caught them. McCachren said later that he was able to make some time on RG for the overall because once Robby caught these slower cars he was able to get around them quicker as they were expecting me. I read more comments about how the UTV's should not be on the same course as the cars & trucks then I had ever seem before. Problem is it was not the UTV's fault. It was Casey for starting the UTV's with the bikes.

At the last Vegas 2 Reno race this year I was chasing Justin Lofton's class 1 car. I cant tell you how many slower UTV & quad teams that I saw in the pits, that I had to tell them the TT's & class 1's were coming so start watching behind you. A few were shocked and one quad guy's pit crew was asking exactly how far back, as they thought about holding their rider and letting the top 5 or so TT's & 1 cars go by.


You are right some guys will never get the UTV thing. But as the UTV's have better turnouts, as they have better quality cars showing up and not just some old slow Rhinos. (BTW I think alot of the "Golf Cart" mentality is because they still think the UTV's are all still like Rhino's) And as the overall finishing position stats are better. The UTV class will gain much more support. But those stats are not going to get better if your racing with the Bikes, starting in front of the TT's or racing half of the event.

Like I said the support and acceptance I saw after the Baja 1000 was 1000X better then what I have read or seen from a BITD race.


BTW for those who think many of these TT's or Class 1 are just charging threw the dust. Well they are, but most are not charging blind. I have raced in a Class 1 car, and I have rode/tested in a TT. I can tell you the closing rate is insane when catching a slower car. Until you have experienced it, I dont know how much can be said. I was shocked at how much faster the Class 1 car was vs the Class 10 car.

 

[BiggJim]

Biggjim its a fact that after the Baja 1000, the UTV's got way more acceptance then they ever had before. That one race did more for the UTV class then a years worth of racing BITD has.

A perfect example of the good credit the UTV class got was the fact that they started in the back of the 4 wheel class at the Baja 1000, did the whole course, and did not take the easy shortcut offered. And the top two cars finished in the top 30's in the overall standings. Even guys like Fishdood on RDC who has always been against UTV's racing in the desert. Said he was completely impresses and took back some of what he has said in the past.

Now an example of bad credit the UTV class got is when Robby was racing BITD in the Truggy and was trying to keep McCachren behind him for the overall, but could not charge hard as he was catching and trying to pass UTV's with 80 miles to go. Robby's comment was the UTV's kick up a ton of dust and being I was the first one on the road, I was the first one to catch them. I had to slow and be more cautious as I caught them. McCachren said later that he was able to make some time on RG for the overall because once Robby caught these slower cars he was able to get around them quicker as they were expecting me. I read more comments about how the UTV's should not be on the same course as the cars & trucks then I had ever seem before. Problem is it was not the UTV's fault. It was Casey for starting the UTV's with the bikes.

At the last Vegas 2 Reno race this year I was chasing Justin Lofton's class 1 car. I cant tell you how many slower UTV & quad teams that I saw in the pits, that I had to tell them the TT's & class 1's were coming so start watching behind you. A few were shocked and one quad guy's pit crew was asking exactly how far back, as they thought about holding their rider and letting the top 5 or so TT's & 1 cars go by.


You are right some guys will never get the UTV thing. But as the UTV's have better turnouts, as they have better quality cars showing up and not just some old slow Rhinos. (BTW I think alot of the "Golf Cart" mentality is because they still think the UTV's are all still like Rhino's) And as the overall finishing position stats are better. The UTV class will gain much more support. But those stats are not going to get better if your racing with the Bikes, starting in front of the TT's or racing half of the event.

Like I said the support and acceptance I saw after the Baja 1000 was 1000X better then what I have read or seen from a BITD race.


BTW for those who think many of these TT's or Class 1 are just charging threw the dust. Well they are, but most are not charging blind. I have raced in a Class 1 car, and I have rode/tested in a TT. I can tell you the closing rate is insane when catching a slower car. Until you have experienced it, I dont know how much can be said. I was shocked at how much faster the Class 1 car was vs the Class 10 car.

After some of the things Ive read on RDC I only visit the site maybe 4 times a year.... I can talk sh!t with the best of em.....but they are just a different breed....If I remember right fishdood was one of the big mouths. Lofton didn't catch us...Only Voss, Jones, Menzies, and Hutchins. At SS300 none of them caught us.....but again...I wouldn't be opposed to starting in the back....Rcaing half the event blows

 

[Heybeerman]

what casey said to me almost exact wording was , i asked everyone at end of race did you have fun

I guess being polite can backfire sometimes.

 

[JoeyD23]

UTVs need to start based off of the AVG time and with four wheel vehicles. It's time we are moved where we belong. We are as big of a danger to slower bikes and ATVs as TTs are to us.

I think there is more to why Casey is keeping us grouped with bikes and the Parker 250 race probably had something to do with it.

I respect and appreciate Casey full on and will support the series no matter what. But things need to change for us at some point. The Mint 200 is bull shit.

Roger / SCORE is going to relocate UTV start to be more inline with our finishing speeds for what it's worth... We will now start in front of class 11!

 

[XPirate]

I think I see a large group of people wearing MINT 200 shirts...

 

[JoeyD23]

Lame. The mint is the best BITD race all year. Huge exposure. It's a Shane we don't get to at least run 3/4 of the race let alone the entire thing. Imagine if score only let us run 200 miles of the Baja 500.

 

[XPirate]

Didn't mean any disrespect to any UTV racers or the companies that support the MINT, but isn't it false advertising? I mean, who ever wins this year and previous years race are bad ass, no doubt, but how do you explain you won the 200 mile race? Everything is labeled and advertised as the MINT 400. As the class has grown and become more competitive across the board, how have the powers that be not fought for an entire 400 mile race? I want to take in the spectacle that is the MINT contingency and the race, but I'd like to see how we stack up against the full size cars...and to get an honest outlook we need to run 400 miles... like it has been mentioned before, the racers need to stand up for themselves and fight for full length races or move to a sanctioning body that will support them. 33 at parker, I'd predict 40+ at the MINT this year... should have a pretty good bargaining chip soon...

 

[JoeyD23]

It comes down to time in the day. And if Casey and the unlimited tears don't want the UTVs on course when they run then there is only one other solution and that is to run UTVs on their own day.

FWIW, I think you all know how close The Martelli Bros and I are. They not only own Mad Media which work for UTVUnderground and as our in house production team, but they also own and put on The Mint 400. Our relationship is what got UTVs into the race in the first place and it's what got UTVs to be such a large part of the actual Mint show. That and Polaris really stepped up big for us last year. They love utvs, and they understand the value we all bring to the race and to off-road. We have discussed this situation at great length for the past year. But the discussion was how do we get UTVs to do the full 400. Never did I expect the race to be reduced like it was this year.

Now let me be clear. The Martelli Bros relinquish race day responsibilities to Casey and BITD. BITD is the sanctioning body so they don't have much weight to throw around for us here. But one solution we had discussed was racing UTVs and then adding bikes to the event and letting us race on Friday vs Saturday. Personally I hate this idea. The Mint 400 contingency on Friday is as much important as the race itself. And if we go race on another day then the actual Mint 400 is anyone even going to care to go watch?

It's frustrating but it comes down to the guys in the cars to really help force a change. I'm just the media dude.

 

[shrive81]

Joey I think what you guys have done for the UTV class along with polaris and mad media is in large part a reason why it has gotten as big as it had and brought it to the mainstream for everyone to see and be apart of... I know it's our turn to start saying what we want as drivers and teams, but we have to be willing to fight for it a little bit, cause I know as much as everyone else we struggle to make ends meet to make this race thing happen for us and our sponsors and to be cut short and only race half of the race is a huge let down when we put in as much time and if not more effort then other classes to get these cars to the start line especially when we are now showing up with 30 plus cars in class..

 

[BiggJim]

It comes down to time in the day. And if Casey and the unlimited tears don't want the UTVs on course when they run then there is only one other solution and that is to run UTVs on their own day.

FWIW, I think you all know how close The Martelli Bros and I are. They not only own Mad Media which work for UTVUnderground and as our in house production team, but they also own and put on The Mint 400. Our relationship is what got UTVs into the race in the first place and it's what got UTVs to be such a large part of the actual Mint show. That and Polaris really stepped up big for us last year. They love utvs, and they understand the value we all bring to the race and to off-road. We have discussed this situation at great length for the past year. But the discussion was how do we get UTVs to do the full 400. Never did I expect the race to be reduced like it was this year.

Now let me be clear. The Martelli Bros relinquish race day responsibilities to Casey and BITD. BITD is the sanctioning body so they don't have much weight to throw around for us here. But one solution we had discussed was racing UTVs and then adding bikes to the event and letting us race on Friday vs Saturday. Personally I hate this idea. The Mint 400 contingency on Friday is as much important as the race itself. And if we go race on another day then the actual Mint 400 is anyone even going to care to go watch?

It's frustrating but it comes down to the guys in the cars to really help force a change. I'm just the media dude.

I guess maybe those finishers at parker should have spoke up about wanting to race the entire event......those words are probably what made casey decide to shorten it back to 200 miles.

 

[XPirate]

I do have a question, possible suggestion. .. why not run the unlimited whiner class 1st thing in the morning? Let them have 1st crack, with nothing to slow them down.... then maybe start the "slower" classes at noon or later if needed and run into the evening? Seems logical to let the fast guys run and finish 1st, then no one has to be "pulled" off course and everyone is givin a chance to finish... then the big $ boys can party the rest of the day while we show everyone what we can do....

 

[NIKAL]

XPirate good questions. I'm going to guess the two biggest factor why the fast guys don't go first is, one they are the big show. Spectators don't want to go out there at 6am. Two the unlimiteds tear the course up really bad. The ruts made by 37 & 39 inch tires would be to big for many of the limited classes. Thus the limited class finish results would reflect it. Plus I think many of the limited guys would complain.

Years ago I raced the Score Primm race in the morning in my 5/16 & co-rode part of the second race in a class 1. The course was greatly changed & torn up from the morning. It truly seemed like two different courses.

 

[BiggJim]

XPirate good questions. I'm going to guess the two biggest factor why the fast guys don't go first is, one they are the big show. Spectators don't want to go out there at 6am. Two the unlimiteds tear the course up really bad. The ruts made by 37 & 39 inch tires would be to big for many of the limited classes. Thus the limited class finish results would reflect it. Plus I think many of the limited guys would complain.

Years ago I raced the Score Primm race in the morning in my 5/16 & co-rode part of the second race in a class 1. The course was greatly changed & torn up from the morning. It truly seemed like two different courses.

I think you nailed it.....Unlimited is the BIG SHOW and everything revolves around it.The ruts at baja were bad....but not so bad as we could not over come them. Finishing rates may suffer a bit, but that just mean you have to run a little different race.

 

[NIKAL]

I think you nailed it.....Unlimited is the BIG SHOW and everything revolves around it.The ruts at baja were bad....but not so bad as we could not over come them. Finishing rates may suffer a bit, but that just mean you have to run a little different race.

The Baja 1000 was not a multible loop. It's in the loop races were each car goes round the course 3-4 times that ruts the courses out so bad. There is a reason why so many call BITD "Blade in the Desert" Many parts of the courses Casey puts a blade on before & after the event. Also lets not forget where Casey bread & butter comes from and what made BITD what it is today. Ford has been a huge supporter of BITD and the Stock Production classes. Ford wants to see finishers. Casey has to make sure those classes have a chance to finish.

 

[BiggJim]

The Baja 1000 was not a multible loop. It's in the loop races were each car goes round the course 3-4 times that ruts the courses out so bad. There is a reason why so many call BITD "Blade in the Desert" Many parts of the courses Casey puts a blade on before & after the event.

Yea....I guess I wasn't considering that silt being ran thru 3 more times

 

[shrive81]

Just got off the phone with BITD and per them we are only doing 2 laps and the entry fee is staying at 900 plus 250 rental for IRC... So it translates to $5.75 a mile lol lol I mean if ur not going to let us run 3 laps the. Don't charge us what everyone else is paying just my though!!!'

 

[shrive81]

Has he thought about running the sportsman and 800 class 2 laps and the pro class all 3 if he is truly worried about finishing times that would make the most since

 

[sanduras]

Damn. only 200 miles, that sucks. thats like going to the movies and only get to see half of it.here i am busting my ass to get my car ready for this race, not so sure i need too now.....