Anyone Interested in racing SNORE?
- Thread starter rockstarcustomz
- Start date
Bajaxp
SXS Racer Extraordinaire - UTVUnderground Approved
Read the current rules...they let Arctic Cat race with 1000cc's but they must meet a minumum weight.
i've read the rules yes it says 2100# for the arctic cat but what about if someone wants to run a big bore like an 850thats alot less than a 1000 cc what should it weigh?what does everyone else 800 or less cc weigh and who decides what weight is fair and how is it determined ?
rockstarcustomz
RoCkStAr CuStOm MoToRsPoRtS - UTVUnderground Appro
This issue is one that we could all get together and discuss.
Bajaxp
SXS Racer Extraordinaire - UTVUnderground Approved
I think the rules will have to be modified in the future, but for now, they work pretty well. We owe Corry Sappington a big 'thank you' for developing what is a competitive and safe set of rules.
The question on the big bore Terex is what is more important to you; weight or power. It is your decision.
What we don't need in UTV racing is a zillion classes. I think two is plenty and we currently have three in BITD.
...and I agree with everyone, that all desert racing organizations should have the same UTV rules.
The question on the big bore Terex is what is more important to you; weight or power. It is your decision.
What we don't need in UTV racing is a zillion classes. I think two is plenty and we currently have three in BITD.
...and I agree with everyone, that all desert racing organizations should have the same UTV rules.
rockstarcustomz
RoCkStAr CuStOm MoToRsPoRtS - UTVUnderground Appro
I agree the rules are good. I contacted Cory today and got permission to present his rules to SNORE. I also agree that we don't want to muddy the waters too much with a bunch of classes. I do appreciate everyone's input.
Bajaxp
SXS Racer Extraordinaire - UTVUnderground Approved
I also presented effectively the same rules as BITD to Sal Fish at SCORE in hopes of creating a true 'pro class' for UTV's for 2011. He was very cordial, but so far nothing has happened. Keep your fingers crossed.
BTW I just picked up one of the classic, ceramic Mint 400 Jim Beam bottles from 1970. Every starter in that race got one. Soooo...that means I need to race the Baja Bobsled in the Mint 400 now.
BTW I just picked up one of the classic, ceramic Mint 400 Jim Beam bottles from 1970. Every starter in that race got one. Soooo...that means I need to race the Baja Bobsled in the Mint 400 now.
I spoke with SNORE back when they re introduced the mint and they politley said "Sorry but No UTVS" Awesome that they are looking at the class now as a potential reality. Granted BITD races are very expensive, The UTV class is actually one of the largest classes racing In BITD after the 1400 & 1500 classes. The entry numbers in BITD have fallen a bit this year which is I feel entirely to to economics.
I have been to SNORE races and they are great events. We would be interested in trying it out. I am not sure if a team could efectively compete in two series but It would be fun to try. Please keep everyone up to date on this.
BS JX
I have been to SNORE races and they are great events. We would be interested in trying it out. I am not sure if a team could efectively compete in two series but It would be fun to try. Please keep everyone up to date on this.
BS JX
rockstarcustomz
RoCkStAr CuStOm MoToRsPoRtS - UTVUnderground Appro
The meeting is tomorrow evening. Please post any questions or concerns that you would like me to bring up if you haven't already. I'll post on Wednesday the results of the meeting. Thank you everyone for all your input!
I talked to Cory today regarding over 800cc and was confused and disapointed with his response.
He said the only UTV allowed in the pro class over 800cc is the Prowler 1000. He said most likely the Commander 1000 would end up in the sportsman class since Can-Am also has an 800cc. That makes no sense to me.
Seems like BITD and every other desert series should have consistent rules on 800cc and under. And then something for 800cc - 1000cc. If you want to run a Commander 1000 or a 840 Teryx or a 850 Polaris you are all in the second tier and would most likely have to meet a minimum weight as a penalty.
The way Cory sees it, each new UTV is handled on a case by case basis, only when someone comes to him and asks how it can fit in the rules. That seems completely backwards to me. I say come up with a standard set of rules, and drop new UTVs into them as they come out. The Commander 1000 and the Prowler 1000 should both be the same. And if someone wants to hop up their Teryx, RZR or Rhino above 800cc then they should compete with the same rules as the 1000cc factory units.
I may try to venture out of the VORRA series next year with my 840cc Teryx, and would be interested in SNORE. After talking with Cory today, I have no interest in doing anything with BITD as long as he is writing the rules and performing tech.
He said the only UTV allowed in the pro class over 800cc is the Prowler 1000. He said most likely the Commander 1000 would end up in the sportsman class since Can-Am also has an 800cc. That makes no sense to me.
Seems like BITD and every other desert series should have consistent rules on 800cc and under. And then something for 800cc - 1000cc. If you want to run a Commander 1000 or a 840 Teryx or a 850 Polaris you are all in the second tier and would most likely have to meet a minimum weight as a penalty.
The way Cory sees it, each new UTV is handled on a case by case basis, only when someone comes to him and asks how it can fit in the rules. That seems completely backwards to me. I say come up with a standard set of rules, and drop new UTVs into them as they come out. The Commander 1000 and the Prowler 1000 should both be the same. And if someone wants to hop up their Teryx, RZR or Rhino above 800cc then they should compete with the same rules as the 1000cc factory units.
I may try to venture out of the VORRA series next year with my 840cc Teryx, and would be interested in SNORE. After talking with Cory today, I have no interest in doing anything with BITD as long as he is writing the rules and performing tech.
i think you are totally correct on the fact it should be addressed now so you dont build something then be over weight or need to add a few hundred pounds.
Bajaxp
SXS Racer Extraordinaire - UTVUnderground Approved
Long term, you are correct. I certainly can not speak for Cory, but what I believe he is trying to do short term, is get as many entries as possible to grow UTV racing, and he should be commended for his efforts. This has allowed the 1000cc Prowlers to run with the RZR's, Terex's and Rhinos...and so far 1000's haven't been able to consistantly beat the RZR's. So all is ok. But again...longer term we will likely need a 800cc and below class, and a up to 1000cc class, plus sportsman...which is run what you brung. I think the SR1's should be put into the sportsman class for desert racing because we don't need a bunch of UTV classes and there are not many SR1's that have ever shown up in the desert. But honestly, big horsepower is not what wins UTV races.
tech3sandcars
Tech3 Sandcars
What everyone needs to remember is the UTV classes start out differently than most other classes, we start with an OEM vehicle and try to fit it around the rules. Other classes start with an engine spec and build their vehicle accordingly. They are held to certain tube diameters and thickness's etc. I look at some vehicles and there is 1.25 tubing everywhere, even in structural members even though the rules say 1.50x095. We have no control over the original frame from the OEM nor the engine location, some are built heavier than others because of it. Forcing us all to run RZR's is ridiculous, we all have our flavors and thats what makes it fun. To say that the pro class can only have one size engine is ass backwards to me when the vehicles vary 300 lbs from one to the other. I think long term is now, short term is over, the rules have been in place for 3-4 years. A committee of racers needs to be formed that includes the interest of 3-4 of us that have different manufacturers types, Polaris, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Arctic Cat, etc. Hell I'll jump on a plane to meet with whomever. Going another year will deepen the animosities and none of us want that.
Who is forcing anyone to run a RZR? Lasher has a kick butt Terex and there are others. And what brand is leading points? Seems pretty competitive to me.
I agree that power isn't the deciding factor to winning desert races, but....
I think what Gary is trying to address is a 750cc Teryx is at a disadvantage to a 760cc RZR because it weighs 200+ lbs more in stock form. Leaving them both stock gives the RZR a big power to weight ratio advantage.
Seems like there should be some sort of allowance for that weight penalty (ie let a Teryx run an 840 or something like that).
Bajaxp
SXS Racer Extraordinaire - UTVUnderground Approved
Good debate, but I disagree. First off you can easily take a Terex up to nearly 800cc and stay within the rules. Secondly a Terex is an OHC four valve motor that even at 750cc can make big power. Look at the Lucas races as an example...all under 800cc. If power was the issue then the 1000cc Cats should have cleaned house; and yet they haven't, didn't and likely won't.
Did you like my idea of a 800cc and below class and a 1000cc class...plus sportsman?
If we can get BITD, SCORE and SNORE (plus others) we can continue to grow UTV racing.
Did you like my idea of a 800cc and below class and a 1000cc class...plus sportsman?
If we can get BITD, SCORE and SNORE (plus others) we can continue to grow UTV racing.
I don't mind different classes if there are enough racers to warrant it, but often there aren't.
That is why it seems like under 1000cc all in one class with some sort of weight penalty would make it simple. Once the numbers grow i like under 800cc in one and 801cc - 1000 cc in another.
tech3sandcars
Tech3 Sandcars
Forcing us all to run RZR's was just a way of saying they are the lightest vehicle available, no disrespect implied. I think what a bunch of us are saying is there should not be just one engine size in the pro class when we have to start with OEM vehicles that are different weight and follow the chassis rules. When the vehicle weight from the factory is so different make the RZR 800cc and the Teryx 840cc, we may pick up more people. All tech inspections have a weigh scale, just weigh the car, look at the manufacturer and off you go.
Most classes of off-road racing have gone thru these discussions and rules have been changed to make things fare for all. They always work together with the input from racers and everyone walks away happy (well almost).
If you had 2 weigh scales and could put a race RZR on one and a race Teryx on the other, saw they were 200-300 lbs different and you knew the engine sizes were the same could you really stand there and say "looks fare to me".
Our goal should be to get more and more people to big desert racing, put everyone into one class with some cc guidelines, then split the classes when theres enough for 2 individual ones. If there is a couple of us that are speaking up that say it needs to be looked at, look at the people that are reading this that aren't speaking up.
Most classes of off-road racing have gone thru these discussions and rules have been changed to make things fare for all. They always work together with the input from racers and everyone walks away happy (well almost).
If you had 2 weigh scales and could put a race RZR on one and a race Teryx on the other, saw they were 200-300 lbs different and you knew the engine sizes were the same could you really stand there and say "looks fare to me".
Our goal should be to get more and more people to big desert racing, put everyone into one class with some cc guidelines, then split the classes when theres enough for 2 individual ones. If there is a couple of us that are speaking up that say it needs to be looked at, look at the people that are reading this that aren't speaking up.
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