turbo's in desert racing

[the stripping shop]

The ECU checking could be very simple. SCORE would need the BUDS system Can Am uses and download the stock ECU settings. Then take a brand new ECU and upload the settings. Put it in a car to verify it works properly and then seal it to be placed in the race car.

Don't think it would be a big deal as there are not many turbo Mavericks racing and certainly not many in SCORE.

Honestly, I don't think the turbo needs much modification in the ECU other than raising the RPM and speed limiters. A stock turbo Maverick will do 80+ MPH. Really can't maintain that type of speed for long before the belt goes. Plus tire size and suspension are going to limit you top speed sustainability anyway.

You are 100% correct but if you can break into ecu its not stock. what happens when one turbo car is faster then other car could it be the ecu. What happens if someone fat finger pushed 70mph limiter instead of 80mph per factory settings that obviously someone can reset the stock ecu. Is 2 seat and 4seat setting the same. why doesn't the 6100 trucks do the same with turnkey ls3,only use factory ecu to stock settings?

 

[Queen Racing]

a re stricter plate will cause the turbo to fail! It will cause the turbo to surge and the thrust washers will be long gone before you will ever finish a 100 mile race! That wont work!

 

[warlock]

To stop all the crying just make every team run a bone stock motor and ecu as the Factory sells it no mods at all. Then its all equal. I sound like a Liberal Californian Politician. Maybe every team will get a Participation Ribbon and there will be no winners or Losers. LOL.

 

[the stripping shop]

To stop all the crying just make every team run a bone stock motor and ecu as the Factory sells it no mods at all. Then its all equal. I sound like a Liberal Californian Politician. Maybe every team will get a Participation Ribbon and there will be no winners or Losers. LOL.

Sure stock suspension too!

 

[the stripping shop]

a re stricter plate will cause the turbo to fail! It will cause the turbo to surge and the thrust washers will be long gone before you will ever finish a 100 mile race! That wont work!

Lets say head intake is ruffly 1" 1/2 hole and you made a 1/4" stainless plate to say 1" 7/16 and put it between head and intake it would surge and the plate would be destroyed less then 100 miles with only max 8psi of boost? But if I used that same size hole on every turbo car with 4 to 15 psi, would I make more power? or would you tune your motor/air cleaner/ exhaust to that hole? How in the hell does a throttle body plate hold up then?

 

[ironworks]

You guys might be more cut out for Golf. You can buy any club you want, you just have to get the ball in the hole. Pretty simple.

LOL

 

[the stripping shop]

You guys might be more cut out for Golf. You can buy any club you want, you just have to get the ball in the hole. Pretty simple.

LOL

just have to run a broken into ecu in my turbo golf cart so I don't mess up the turf lol. Still my question that nobody can and will answer if cory can break into a ecu re flash any can am ecu its not factory then. It didn't come from the factory in stock form. If can am send score 10 ecu not touched by anybody then they are factory ecu but once anybody breaks breaks or plugs into them they are not factory period. When Polaris does release a turbo model one of these days/years will they have to live up to the same standars. Will Polaris send a none dealer there fancy computer to break into there ecu or send out 10 factory ecu. Or will Polaris change the rules to fit there turbo car?

 

[ALBANATE]

just have to run a broken into ecu in my turbo golf cart so I don't mess up the turf lol. Still my question that nobody can and will answer if cory can break into a ecu re flash any can am ecu its not factory then. It didn't come from the factory in stock form. If can am send score 10 ecu not touched by anybody then they are factory ecu but once anybody breaks breaks or plugs into them they are not factory period. When Polaris does release a turbo model one of these days/years will they have to live up to the same standars. Will Polaris send a none dealer there fancy computer to break into there ecu or send out 10 factory ecu. Or will Polaris change the rules to fit there turbo car?

A factory Can-Am Ecu has to be married to the vehicle(gauge cluster) via the b.u.d.s. software. The ECU itself is not altered or changed it is more that the gauge cluster is accepting it. This process will need to be done to every Can-Am in the class, and can be a pain in the ass. Polaris on the other hand is quite simple. They do not require marrying or anything like that. You can pull to the side of the course; remove ecu; install new, and go about your business with nobody knowing. I think Can-Ams are fairly easy to regulate as the system is much more complex, and the real problem is going to be when the Polaris vehicle is brought into the picture...

But.... how about this. I have the ability to plug into the diag port on a Maverick and re-flash the ecu just like a diesel truck. what is going to keep someone from having what I have and being able to just stop for a few minutes and change mapping without even touching the Ecu!!!

Why not just let the turbo class be an unlimited class? If everyone is so concerned about who is going to have what amount of HP, screw it! Run what you brung! Lets face it...if it is near impossible to regulate why try?!

Nate
Alba Racing

ps if anyone has specific questions regarding ecu stuff I would be more than happy to try and answer...

 

[ironworks]

A factory Can-Am Ecu has to be married to the vehicle(gauge cluster) via the b.u.d.s. software. The ECU itself is not altered or changed it is more that the gauge cluster is accepting it. This process will need to be done to every Can-Am in the class, and can be a pain in the ass. Polaris on the other hand is quite simple. They do not require marrying or anything like that. You can pull to the side of the course; remove ecu; install new, and go about your business with nobody knowing. I think Can-Ams are fairly easy to regulate as the system is much more complex, and the real problem is going to be when the Polaris vehicle is brought into the picture...

But.... how about this. I have the ability to plug into the diag port on a Maverick and re-flash the ecu just like a diesel truck. what is going to keep someone from having what I have and being able to just stop for a few minutes and change mapping without even touching the Ecu!!!

Why not just let the turbo class be an unlimited class? If everyone is so concerned about who is going to have what amount of HP, screw it! Run what you brung! Lets face it...if it is near impossible to regulate why try?!

Nate
Alba Racing

ps if anyone has specific questions regarding ecu stuff I would be more than happy to try and answer...

It already is, Just modify the car outside of the production rules and you have your self an unlimited class car.

 

[the stripping shop]

It already is, Just modify the car outside of the production rules and you have your self an unlimited class car.

Why does everyone get to break into Polaris ecu then?

 

[sand shark]

all good questions. I think the real concern with the turbo is the ability to mess with the boost setting with the ECU

Why does everyone get to break into Polaris ecu then?

Because it is not a turbo and there is no boost to turn up. Plus the entire class of n/a engines is allowed to mess with the ECU (Can Am, Polaris and AC).

As I said, the turbo Maverick racers should be able to go into the ECU to adjust RPM and speed limiters and fuel mapping.


Maybe Nate can explain the role of the ECU for n/a and turbo applications.

 

[JoeyD23]

I have an idea. Why not run the Turbo Maverick in the UNLIMITED class and let em rip! Oh wait, I said that last year and no one listened then.... Oh well, the rules will be CHANGED AGAIN once a Polaris Turbo hits the market. One can only assume it will have more HP thus allowing Cory to change the rules to allow for ECU mods on the Maverick.. I know I sound like a broken record on this, but I warned everyone about the can of worms. Turbo was bad for the class... Should have stuck it in the Unlimited class where it belongs.

 

[mearsman]

But if it's a production car just like the xp1000 what's the issue? If it was a k&t setup it'd be a different story. This just means that those of you who showing any concern over this situation are threatened by it.
If the turbo cars are so much faster, then why was Johnny beating the pants off of everyone at the mint? He had the field more than covered before the tranny blew. The playing field is still even


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[JoeyD23]

But if it's a production car just like the xp1000 what's the issue? If it was a k&t setup it'd be a different story. This just means that those of you who showing any concern over this situation are threatened by it.
If the turbo cars are so much faster, then why was Johnny beating the pants off of everyone at the mint? He had the field more than covered before the tranny blew. The playing field is still even


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You miss the entire point. This machine, factory or not, changes the dynamic of the class. While you as a can am loyalist feel good about it, myself as an invested UTV racing purist sees just how detrimental adding turbos to the current pro utv mix is. Look at the crap already stirred by just the ECU!! This is a crappy can of worms that could have been prevented. I would have sang the same tune if Polaris released a turbo first. Question is, would you have??

 

[mearsman]

Joey, first of all I want to say that I appreciate all that you do to further the utv industry. Without the diligent work of everyone at utv underground, I don't think the class would be where it is today. I'm not loyal to any one brand. I appreciate all of the brands because they all have their own niche within the market. I like the Polaris for the all out speed that they bring and the support that they bring to the sxs world. I like can am for their quality and craftsmanship. I've never worked on the other brands so I know only what my peers have experienced. Im thankful for Polaris ,There's no denying their commitment to bringing the utv class to the forefront of racing. With that being said, if the roles were reversed and can am was as dominant as Polaris is and can am was dominating the mint 400 and broke within 10 miles or whatever the small distance was, and the "new" turbo Polaris that was running in second came and won the race, I can honestly say I wouldn't have an issue with it. I know that your scoffing at me right now saying "ya right dude!"
I totally understand. However here's my reasoning, if the fact that the turbo system had an overall influence in the outcome of the race by itself I would take exception.
You have been around the block long enough to know that it's not horsepower that wins desert races. It's managing the pitfalls. Like changing a rear axle at pit 2 in at the silver state 300 in 7-8 minutes. Or changing a transmission in under 1.5 hrs on the racecourse.
. For the most part all of these cars are around 120rwhp. Sure, people are going to deny it. I'm fine with the top teams not disclosing the hp that they have. The case and point to this is the 1921, they are kicking everyone's ass. He has no turbo, and is on track to win both championships..... Without a turbo.

Regardless, this is an interesting time in the 1900 class. I do believe that there will be more cars in the unlimited class though in the near future




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[ironworks]

Joey, first of all I want to say that I appreciate all that you do to further the utv industry. Without the diligent work of everyone at utv underground, I don't think the class would be where it is today. I'm not loyal to any one brand. I appreciate all of the brands because they all have their own niche within the market. I like the Polaris for the all out speed that they bring and the support that they bring to the sxs world. I like can am for their quality and craftsmanship. I've never worked on the other brands so I know only what my peers have experienced. Im thankful for Polaris ,There's no denying their commitment to bringing the utv class to the forefront of racing. With that being said, if the roles were reversed and can am was as dominant as Polaris is and can am was dominating the mint 400 and broke within 10 miles or whatever the small distance was, and the "new" turbo Polaris that was running in second came and won the race, I can honestly say I wouldn't have an issue with it. I know that your scoffing at me right now saying "ya right dude!"
I totally understand. However here's my reasoning, if the fact that the turbo system had an overall influence in the outcome of the race by itself I would take exception.
You have been around the block long enough to know that it's not horsepower that wins desert races. It's managing the pitfalls. Like changing a rear axle at pit 2 in at the silver state 300 in 7-8 minutes. Or changing a transmission in under 1.5 hrs on the racecourse.
. For the most part all of these cars are around 120rwhp. Sure, people are going to deny it. I'm fine with the top teams not disclosing the hp that they have. The case and point to this is the 1921, they are kicking everyone's ass. He has no turbo, and is on track to win both championships..... Without a turbo.

Regardless, this is an interesting time in the 1900 class. I do believe that there will be more cars in the unlimited class though in the near future




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If you believe all that I have some ocean front property in Arizona for you. 120rwhp.........on whose Dyno?

 

[mearsman]

Whosever Dyno you choose. The point was this, the hp is not what wins but sometimes loses the race.


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[JoeyD23]

Joey, first of all I want to say that I appreciate all that you do to further the utv industry. Without the diligent work of everyone at utv underground, I don't think the class would be where it is today. I'm not loyal to any one brand. I appreciate all of the brands because they all have their own niche within the market. I like the Polaris for the all out speed that they bring and the support that they bring to the sxs world. I like can am for their quality and craftsmanship. I've never worked on the other brands so I know only what my peers have experienced. Im thankful for Polaris ,There's no denying their commitment to bringing the utv class to the forefront of racing. With that being said, if the roles were reversed and can am was as dominant as Polaris is and can am was dominating the mint 400 and broke within 10 miles or whatever the small distance was, and the "new" turbo Polaris that was running in second came and won the race, I can honestly say I wouldn't have an issue with it. I know that your scoffing at me right now saying "ya right dude!"
I totally understand. However here's my reasoning, if the fact that the turbo system had an overall influence in the outcome of the race by itself I would take exception.
You have been around the block long enough to know that it's not horsepower that wins desert races. It's managing the pitfalls. Like changing a rear axle at pit 2 in at the silver state 300 in 7-8 minutes. Or changing a transmission in under 1.5 hrs on the racecourse.
. For the most part all of these cars are around 120rwhp. Sure, people are going to deny it. I'm fine with the top teams not disclosing the hp that they have. The case and point to this is the 1921, they are kicking everyone's ass. He has no turbo, and is on track to win both championships..... Without a turbo.

Regardless, this is an interesting time in the 1900 class. I do believe that there will be more cars in the unlimited class though in the near future




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Well said and I appreciate the kind words. I love good debates and sharing of ideas and opinions. At the end of the day we all have a beer.

With that said, it's not a discussion about what happens at the mint or tomorrow at the V2R or at Baja. It's about the dynamic of adding a turbo to the mix. How to regulate it and most importantly, how to not let it change the entire class further obsoleting what was a fair and level class.

Fact is, the Maverick 1000 is as much of a machine as the RZR 1000 as the Wildcat 1000. The biggest difference in the 3 is the overwhelming use of the RZR. This does not constitute the need for a wildcat or Maverick to have a turbo to level the paying field. The RZR did not have a marginal HP advantage and you are right HP does not win races. But if that's the case why would anyone running a can am run a turbo!?

Fact is, before this turbo we finally had a level cc regulated class, something that took us years to get too with the ever evolving growth of the engines and development of models. Finally the OEMs with real sport models were all at a level CC size engine wise. Now we are once again in a state of lopsided advantage, one that could easily be justified to be kept out or placed into an unlimited classification due to the forced induction.

So here we are. One OEM has been catered too and it has been justified to everyone as "what are you scared of" "HP doesn't win races" "Polaris still wins more races" etc etc. My entire point will be made once Polaris drops a bigger, faster, turbo this once again out gunning the Can Am and putting the Mavericks right back into a disadvantage. What makes it worse is all the big boys will now convert to Turbos further obsoleting the current and adequate 1000s thus making others have to build new cars further raising the cost to race a Pro UTV and reducing the value of the current race machines and threaten to reduce car counts.

This problem wouldn't be a concern if the turbo was an unlimited classified race machine. Then racers could choose, want the latest and greatest? Race in unlimited and grow that class naturally. Instead, unlimited class remains a hodge podge of race machines and the successful and growing pro UTV class is just going to get more expensive to compete in at the highest level.

 

[mearsman]

I wholehearted agree. The way it's going, the little guy is going to get left behind. Both roger and Cory are coming to a crossroad. They have to decide whether or not to allow the forced induction engines into the production class. Or to make another class altogether. So does that mean that all forced induction cars weather factory or not go to the unlimited class? The turbo car for both manufactures is going to be their prized possession. It's what they are aiming to sell the most of. The old saying goes "win on Sunday, sell on Monday"
The only way it's going to work is if the top teams stay N/A. And I don't really see that happening. If all the top teams went turbo then the cost of this class is going to outpace itself really quick.
So what's the best case scenario?


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[motive]

Just a wild ass guess but I wouldn't be surprised if we see a couple turbo polaris' racing this year. Why is Cognito and I believe Jagged both building new cars when there hasn't been a model update? Unless their old chassis are so hammered, cracked and twisted that its hopeless to fix them the best reason I can think of is they are building on pre production 2016 chassis so that as soon as polaris announces a turbo they can do a motor switcheroo and have a race ready turbo car the next day. Let the flaming begin....