SCORE wants your input on increasing PRO UTV entries

[Bajaxp]

My first 2 races were KOH and a worcs race, all because of the low cost of getting the car race ready.
After racing those races, I found a way to build a BITD car. Its the funnest/most intense thing I've ever done.
Start out with a PURE/WORCS series car and go from there. There are several BITD ready 900's for sale right now with some switching to the 1000.
I'm hoping to race the San Felipe 250 this year but not sure how to get my car tagged. Can I assume that a BITD car will pass SCORE. Then theres the issue of chase trucks/pit crew.

You can do one of three things to get your car tagged. You get it done by Art Sevedra in Vegas, by Jake Velasco in San Diego or the easiest thing to do is have it done in San Felipe, but not during tech/contingency day. They do cage inspections the two days leading up to the race. Simply call SCORE and ask to talk to Jake and let them know your plan.

The rules for SCORE are virtually the same as BITD. The exceptions are that you must run double 'd-rings' on your seat belts/restraints and you must have your car number on the roof of your car in addition to the front, back and sides.

Chasing San Felipe is a piece of cake compared to the 1000. One of the best things to do, if you have limited help would be to sign up for a pits service such as Mag 7, Baja Pits or maybe even Rusty's new UTV pit service. There is easy access to the half way point at Morellia Junction. The San Felipe 250 would be a good place to get your feet wet racing in Baja. Plus San Felipe is a really cool place.

 

[BiggJim]

I agree with MP and Shrive..... You can’t skimp on the safety aspect on these cars like you can at PURE...at PURE you don’t have Unlimited Vehicles Charging thru the Dust at 100+mph. A bolt on style stock Gas tank car would be a death trap.Yes there is a larger Initial investment and fees are larger....but you are racing the Premier Series if you are racing BITD or SCORE.

 

[crazywatson]

I'm not a baja racer but it seems everyone needs more sponcership. Sponsors want more exposure. Getting more media exposure for the utv class would bring in more and bigger sponsors wanting that exposure. I don't think making stuff cheaper works to make things bigger you need to bring in more $.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

[Oc1]

I agree with most of what's been said. The safety aspect is huge and with the speeds being hit now it can't change. My biggest factor is obviously cost. Long term goal is to race Baja. It's been on the bucket list for a long time. For me personally including DSR1's in the pro class like BITD would make it easier for me to find the money. I've been down for the sf250 as a fan for the last 5 years and really love it. People who are scared of Baja just haven't had a chance to experience it.

 

[dnf736]

I haven't read every post so forgive me if mine is a repeat.

Because class 1900 is based on a production platform, the promoter with the most factory endorsement and involvement should win the turnout war.

Along the lines of factory support is a contingency program like you see all the MFG's do with motocross, not sure if sales figures would support it though.

One advantage SCORE has over the other is the draw of Baja.

Baja is a scary magical place that captures the imagination on men and tickles their souls with the excitement of adventure. It is the last frontier of off road racing and should be on everyones bucket list like it is mine.

 

[Johnny]

I wana Race Baja !!

UTVs are in their infancy ....

UTV Racing still does not have the Factory Dollars
UTV Racing still does not have a Manufacture willing to sell a company Like mine, Cognito, Jagged X, Lonestar Racing, Ect ECt stripped down utvs by the hand full IE no cages no seats no parts that you have to throw away so a Company could have 5 brand new race legal cars for sale for 25999.00

UTV Racing I think should have a Sealed Factory Motor so it does not turn into another he with the most money wins race series

UTVs are still changing so fast every year that the guys that built last years models show up to race and get beat by this years stock model so as soon as UTVs Level out a bit and the single seaters come out im sure the class will explode ...

3000.00 entry fees are off the hook they need to remember that the guys racing UTVs might be the guys that step up to the bigger race cars next year at some point everybody wants to be driving a trophy truck

I cant wait to see the day when the factory teams get some new gear sets so they can do 50 to 60 MPH in LOW and blast across the smooth sections doing 110 MPH ... its coming

 

[the stripping shop]

Johnny I like your idea of getting cars just a roller would save allot of money. Are you going to do a wildcat or get arcticat to start getting involved more. I don't like sealed motor idea kind of take out motor development. Look at Polaris how much they have evolve to 1000. Then you look at wildcat look at how much there motor has stayed the same no motor builder will touch them to help evolve it.

 

[BiggJim]

Good Point Johnny, As far as the Motors are concerned...In the desert...HP is not necessarily going to win the race.....Look at Jagged X...They ran a stock HO motor at Baja1000 and I believe in both cars at the Henderson race. I would have called BS at first....until I seen the areas they passed us VS the areas we passed them. In the Henderson Video Joey just posted yesterday Jagged passed us a few times in the extreme rough...we still run the stock suspension configuration and Have 4" less travel....I think everyone here can relate to what 4 more inches can do…anyhow….the areas we passed them we in the sand and up hill…so apparently we had a bit more motor. It’s a fine balance on give and take with horsepower….too much and you break parts….not enough…well you know! Being able to buy a rolling chassis without piecing it together would probably help EVERY racer

 

[Bajaxp]

Good Point Johnny, As far as the Motors are concerned...In the desert...HP is not necessarily going to win the race.....Look at Jagged X...They ran a stock HO motor at Baja1000 and I believe in both cars at the Henderson race. I would have called BS at first....until I seen the areas they passed us VS the areas we passed them. In the Henderson Video Joey just posted yesterday Jagged passed us a few times in the extreme rough...we still run the stock suspension configuration and Have 4" less travel....I think everyone here can relate to what 4 more inches can do…anyhow….the areas we passed them we in the sand and up hill…so apparently we had a bit more motor. It’s a fine balance on give and take with horsepower….too much and you break parts….not enough…well you know! Being able to buy a rolling chassis without piecing it together would probably help EVERY racer

Great point! Yes we ran a stock engine at the 500 and at the 1000. JX Brandon ran the high hp motor at V2R but took it out and ran a stocker at Bluewater and at Henderson and got first place at both of these races. There is a lot of people that think top speed and big power win desert races, but the driver, prep, team and consistancy are a much bigger factor. I also believe you can win in a XP900 next year.

I too like the 'rolling chassis' idea for builders to modify. I don't know if it is a reality or not, but it is definately on the list of ideas to pitch.

In response to Johnny, I think the sponsor dollars will need to come from other places than the factories. Can you imaging going to Honda and saying you need a sponsorship to race your CRF in BITD? They would laugh you out of the place. I know for certain that the OEM's probably get 5-10 requests a day for racing sponsorships and obviously can't help everyone, but they do help some. BTW...Polaris and Can Am do offer contingency $$$ for BITD and SCORE now! Here is a tip about getting sponsorships...when approaching a potential sponsor, it is not about 'you' or 'you' getting help...it is about 'them' and how much more stuff they sell or how much brand exposure 'they' will get buy supporting your efforts. So are you willing to work in their booth at trade shows? Are you willing to write a press release for them after the race? Are you willing to pay for and set up a display during contingency? If the answer to any of these questions is no, then that will likely be there answer to your request. Keeping sponsors happy is hard work and takes a lot of time. They definately want a big R.O.I.

BTW...are you 'Jim' or 'Oliver?'

 

[BiggJim]

Great point! Yes we ran a stock engine at the 500 and at the 1000. JX Brandon ran the high hp motor at V2R but took it out and ran a stocker at Bluewater and at Henderson and got first place at both of these races. There is a lot of people that think top speed and big power win desert races, but the driver, prep, team and consistancy are a much bigger factor. I also believe you can win in a XP900 next year.

I too like the 'rolling chassis' idea for builders to modify. I don't know if it is a reality or not, but it is definately on the list of ideas to pitch.

In response to Johnny, I think the sponsor dollars will need to come from other places than the factories. Can you imaging going to Honda and saying you need a sponsorship to race your CRF in BITD? They would laugh you out of the place. I know for certain that the OEM's probably get 5-10 requests a day for racing sponsorships and obviously can't help everyone, but they do help some. BTW...Polaris and Can Am do offer contingency $$$ for BITD and SCORE now! Here is a tip about getting sponsorships...when approaching a potential sponsor, it is not about 'you' or 'you' getting help...it is about 'them' and how much more stuff they sell or how much brand exposure 'they' will get buy supporting your efforts. So are you willing to work in their booth at trade shows? Are you willing to write a press release for them after the race? Are you willing to pay for and set up a display during contingency? If the answer to any of these questions is no, then that will likely be there answer to your request. Keeping sponsors happy is hard work and takes a lot of time. They definately want a big R.O.I.

BTW...are you 'Jim' or 'Oliver?'

LMAO! That just depends on whos Asking. You can Call me Jim

 

[dnf736]

I wana Race Baja !!

UTVs are in their infancy ....

UTV Racing still does not have the Factory Dollars
UTV Racing still does not have a Manufacture willing to sell a company Like mine, Cognito, Jagged X, Lonestar Racing, Ect ECt stripped down utvs by the hand full IE no cages no seats no parts that you have to throw away so a Company could have 5 brand new race legal cars for sale for 25999.00

Great idea, a builders spec.

UTV Racing I think should have a Sealed Factory Motor so it does not turn into another he with the most money wins race series

Does and doesn't matter.

Does if you make a spec rule for mandating sealed stock engines with stock internals.

Doesn’t because the haves will rebuild it after each race.*

At LOORRS in ProLite and certain ProBuggy engines there is a sealed engine rule and a list of certified engine resealers, the problem there is the Ford small block we ran last season we could freshen up our selves for $3,000 but I wouldn’t be able to seal it so it has to go to someone on the list and now that $3,000 becomes $11,000.

*Sealed engines do not mean low cost or unmodified either, the resealers are competing for your $ and they know how to be creative in extraction HP from sealed engine parts, trust me. A brand new sealed D347SR Ford crate engine goes for $9,000 from Ford Racing, its nowhere near as fast as a Nogrady, Rousch, or ProPower sealed D347SR which go for between $11,000 and $18,000 depending on which builder your willing to spend your money on.

Then you have to have tech guys that know what they are looking at if they decide to tear an engine down which also adds to the cost of sealed engines.

Jim brought something up I hadn’t thought of, make a rule in this area and combined with a couple of other rules then maybe it would level the playing field a little, help keep costs in line, and attract new competitors.

These are supposed to be production based cars;
Limit suspension travel to production specs of the car with this longest travel.
Limit shock bodies to 2.5" diameter.
Make it a claimer class.
An XP900 long block goes for approx. $3,500 so for $4,500 (gotta pay for someones time) you can claim their engine almost guaranteeing that engine will be stock. I say almost because I can tell you stories of stock car guys cheating in claimer classes.

Thoughts?

 

[NIKAL]

Remember guys this thread was about how to get more cars to race Score. There is nothing wrong with the current rules package, so why change it? It's the same rules that apply to BITD and we are not hearing about people wanting those rules changed. Could a tweak here & there be reasonable? Sure, but this thread was about how to get more teams to race Score & Baja.

The best thing this class can do is insure that as many series as possible follow the same rules. This makes your cars worth more and allows more options on where to race.

Sealed engines suck, they causes more cost in the long run.
Claimer rules suck. Who wants to have to possibly have to pull their engine right after a race because someone wants to buy it? If people are worried about illegal motors, have them tech'ed after the race just like the other limited buggy classes do.
You already have suspension parameters requiring stock pivot points & including how many shocks per wheel. Why add to those rules? If one guy can figure out how to get more wheel travel in the required parameters then so be it. CV angles will be the judge on how far you push it.

 

[BiggJim]

Great idea, a builders spec.
Jim brought something up I hadn’t thought of, make a rule in this area and combined with a couple of other rules then maybe it would level the playing field a little, help keep costs in line, and attract new competitors.

These are supposed to be production based cars;
Limit suspension travel to production specs of the car with this longest travel.
Limit shock bodies to 2.5" diameter.
Make it a claimer class.
An XP900 long block goes for approx. $3,500 so for $4,500 (gotta pay for someones time) you can claim their engine almost guaranteeing that engine will be stock. I say almost because I can tell you stories of stock car guys cheating in claimer classes.

Thoughts?

Really up until this point we knew we had a dis-advantage with the stock width car.We have ran with it for a couple of reason...the biggest reason is TIME. We just havent had time to build a full on kit...and to be quite frank...what we have been using really is only a dis advantage at a few courses.

There is a rule that limits travel...KINDA...the rule is a width limit. So with the width limit in place you are really only going to gain about 4"s in travel. As far as shock limits...we have one of those Too. 1 shock per corner. Limiting it too a 2.5 really isnt going to matter much...IMHO.

IMHO the current rules work good....At this point I wouldnt call it a "Bank Roll race" Cognito has less Dollars in our Car than some others....and we have more than some others. But at the end of the day it only takes one axle, One clutch, One belt, Or one Flat tire to end your day out front. This racing comes down to PREP, Luck, and Logistics...and whos the best at it. "Spec'ing" or "tagging" is just going to take away the enteries IMO

 

[Heybeerman]

Great point! There is a lot of people that think top speed and big power win desert races, but the driver, prep, team, consistency, but the CO-DRIVER!!!!!!!!! is a much bigger factor.

Well said Matt!

 

[Bajaxp]

Oly-Jim and Nikal-Todd...you are spot on. Stock motors are winning races now. The current rules are the same for SCORE, BITD and I think SNORE. Leave them alone. CV's are the great equalizer. We already have a width rule. Etc.

 

[Bajaxp]

Well said Matt!

Yep...it's impossible for Brandon to 'lift' when you left foot is smashed on top of his right foot. ...Jagged X secrets revealed!

 

[Johnny]

All Great Points !!
Looks like it might boil down to entry fees, and maybe a bit more of a knowledge field and logistic help for the new guys wanting to go racing.

I know I will have a lot of questions when I get ready to build my car and I’m sure like all the others a million questions on pre running, GPS, Fuel, stops, chase trucks etc. .. Maybe a knowledge base thread here on the underground ? I know I come here a lot for Racing INFO
And I’m sorry to say but it looks like we will be selling or shutting down the Arctic Cat Dealership so nothing in the works with Arctic Cat .. Its taking up to many of our resources and with all the new machines from all the Manufactures in the last year we are trying to focus and figure out the best place for us in the Industry

But Baha is on my BUCKET LIST

 

[dnf736]

Remember guys this thread was about how to get more cars to race Score. There is nothing wrong with the current rules package, so why change it? It's the same rules that apply to BITD and we are not hearing about people wanting those rules changed. Could a tweak here & there be reasonable? Sure, but this thread was about how to get more teams to race Score & Baja.

The best thing this class can do is insure that as many series as possible follow the same rules. This makes your cars worth more and allows more options on where to race.

Sealed engines suck, they causes more cost in the long run.
Claimer rules suck. Who wants to have to possibly have to pull their engine right after a race because someone wants to buy it? If people are worried about illegal motors, have them tech'ed after the race just like the other limited buggy classes do.
You already have suspension parameters requiring stock pivot points & including how many shocks per wheel. Why add to those rules? If one guy can figure out how to get more wheel travel in the required parameters then so be it. CV angles will be the judge on how far you push it.

The question was asked for ideas but if everything is so great then why are they asking?

The math is simple, there are currently not enough racers to go around so if you want more cars at SCORE then basically you’re asking everyone at BITD to drop that series but how many would you really be adding because when I look at the results from both series I see some of the same names.

Desert UTV racing needs more fresh blood in the class and one of the easiest ways to make that happen is to take a look at the rule book to see if it can be used/changed/modified in such a way as to lower the cost , level the playing field, and attract more new racers.

Claimer rules are usually in place to try and prevent people from cheating, this idea sound like more of an inconvenience than anything I guess.

LOORRS went to spec sealed engines and Prolite went through the roof so much so they have a whole bunch of new problems to deal with now including qualifiers, that’s growth. They have put together a successful business plan at both LOORRS and LORORS that warrant a look to see if anything they did can be applied to desert racing.

WORCS has had tremendous growth over the years as well, what can be learned there?

Heres something, SCORE and BITD both have 20+ car classes and several of them only have four racers or less, why not work on them to switch to golfcarts?

As for entry fee's the price to rent and insure public dirt has gotten out of hand, Im not sure much can be done there.

Good luck.

 

[BiggJim]

The question was asked for ideas but if everything is so great then why are they asking?

The math is simple, there are currently not enough racers to go around so if you want more cars at SCORE then basically you’re asking everyone at BITD to drop that series but how many would you really be adding because when I look at the results from both series I see some of the same names.

Desert UTV racing needs more fresh blood in the class and one of the easiest ways to make that happen is to take a look at the rule book to see if it can be used/changed/modified in such a way as to lower the cost , level the playing field, and attract more new racers.

Claimer rules are usually in place to try and prevent people from cheating, this idea sound like more of an inconvenience than anything I guess.

LOORRS went to spec sealed engines and Prolite went through the roof so much so they have a whole bunch of new problems to deal with now including qualifiers, that’s growth. They have put together a successful business plan at both LOORRS and LORORS that warrant a look to see if anything they did can be applied to desert racing.

WORCS has had tremendous growth over the years as well, what can be learned there?

Heres something, SCORE and BITD both have 20+ car classes and several of them only have four racers or less, why not work on them to switch to golfcarts?
As for entry fee's the price to rent and insure public dirt has gotten out of hand, Im not sure much can be done there.

Good luck.

This...In my opinion this is where the transplants could come from. Hell even some of the bigger clases I could see side stepping into the limited golf carts.

I would expect after the showing at the 1000 and all the NAY SAYER's that said no golf cart would finish in the 36 hour time frame that some eye's have been opened. These little light weight 4x4's are legit racers...and some of the guys spending more money and never finishing may just take another look....As for this year...I doubt it, but either way it will happen.

....and then back to the IDEA of buying a rolling chassis.....I think that idea is worth a double and tripple take.

 

[Wyoming]

I can say that price is what is keeping me out of both series. I can't afford to build a SCORE spec machine. On top of that I use my machine to practice (play) as well. I am not complaining. I fully understand the purpose of the rules, but the fact is, it isn't feasible for me to build a machine to that spec. I race locally and am looking at getting to a few PURE races. Maybe someday I can work up enough momentum to get some sponsor money to help build a big boy car.