SCORE wants your input on increasing PRO UTV entries

Bajaxp

SXS Racer Extraordinaire - UTVUnderground Approved
I spoke with Roger Norman last night during the taping of Dirt Live and he wants to know what it would take to increase the entries for the PRO UTV class in SCORE.

Totally open ended...just wanted feedback. I mentioned that I was pretty stoked that we were the third largest class at the 1000 and that entries are up, but he circled back to what it would take to increase entries.

Roger would love to see 30+ UTV's at the San Felipe 250 but wants to know what is stopping this from happening...or from the afirmative, what would it take to get 30+ entries. He loves our class and wants to see it grow! You have Roger's ear so let's hear your suggestions! :)
 
Greenbacks - for all of us that can't get enough sponsors . Not complaining just stating my position. we can afford maybe 1 to 2 races a year.
 
I don't think there is any one thing stopping teams from coming south. Cost, logistics, pits (UTV Pit Club) and fear of the unknown.


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I think well I know for out team it is simple finances, if the entry fee is 3500 alone it just is to much that is the only thing stopping us I would love to race Baja just to rich for my blood..
 
it is definitely expensive. i am not sure what the entry fee is for SF 250 and Baja 500, but the baja 1000 was $2700 plus $280 for the tracker.

i would be surprised if entries ever top 20 on a regular basis for score, unless some buggy and truck guys step into the 1900 class.

I loved the 1000 BTW :D
 
Sorry I was mistaken I heard that it was 3500 with everything maybe I forgot to covert the pesos haha... For us we are on a shoe string budget so being able to do all the BItD races this year will be the main priority if we some how have extra income aka I start selling drugs or hooking on the corner maybe we will make score haha
 
Thanks for the feedback. Keep it coming!

So far I have cost, cost and more cost. I also think Rusty is right that logistics, the unknown, and the 'dark-spooky' Baja factor as bearing some weight. I think other racers can help with that. Of all all the first time Baja racers who went to the 1000, I got an overwhelming 'thumbs up' on Baja and racing in Mexico.

BTW...the 500 and certainly the San Felipe 250 are significantly less money to race on all fronts; entry fee, gas, tracker, # of nights in a hotel, insurance, etc.

Question: for those racers who would consider racing in Baja, how much less expensive would it have to be for you to go?
 
I honestly don’t think there are 30 desert teams if you lumped every association together. The only desert racing to consistently see double digit car cars is BITD. The only other place that is seeing any consistent number is PURE and 90% of the cars there wouldn’t pass tech at the BITD/SCORE events. I am not taking anything from Score..it just hasn’t had anything consistent as of yet. At this point I think desert racing will be lucky to continue with 20’s. It will continue to grow, but as it grows it will also see some of the less committed teams start to fall off. Just like BITD nearing the end of the season. We started BITD with high teens and twenties…ended with 11 at Henderson.
 
I have been going down to Baja and we own a house down in rio hardy which is half way to San Felipe, by no means is Baja a scary place it's just unknown and the communication. Factor is the hardest part some times.. I think if a race cost 1000-1500 for a longer race isn't bad the bitd prices are just at the mark of being the right price until they start cutting miles but that is a whole other story hahaha... Baja is not only a race it is a adventure which is why it's got such a lure but if u make it to were it's priced to high u will lose the smaller budget classes and teams that don't have big bank roles but then again I don't own score and I also don't pay the bills so it might sound great to talk about but I'm sure their is a very significant cost with putting on a race..
 
i would love to start racing score, a fuel cell and $ are holding me back for now.soon hope to change that. having 2 daughters 18 and 22 are whats really holding me back LOL
 
Yes, if you consider $/mile then SCORE is likely no more expensive than BITD from an entry fee perspective.

BTW...at the Mint in 2012 we had 33 UTV entries.

Keep the ideas coming! Good stuff.

Personally I would love to see more Power Sports dealers get involved, like they have done with motocross and PWC racing now and in the past. There was one team from SSS Polaris in Utah at Henderson for their first race. They had a very nice car. But why doesn't Bert's, Chaparral, Ride Now, MotoWorld, etc field or help a team. Dealers claim that they want to be the 'go to' place for parts, accessories, builds, service, etc. Well this would certainly give them cred!

I also get inquiries from potential racers in the US, but actually more from international places wanting an 'arrive and drive' Baja experience. This might be an opportunity for some of the existing teams to build a second or third car and rent it. Or maybe instead of selling their existing cars they should keep them and do the 'arrive and drive' gig. Just a thought.

I am guessing that you will see more and more 'local' (Mexican) teams racing the UTV class. If the GlasCraft car is any indicator, they build some really nice stuff.

Keep the ideas coming!
 
Ill check on what RideNows stance is on sponsoring a team. Mr Coulter has plenty of money :D
 
I dont race UTV's but I have raced several other classes in Score, BITD & MDR. Racing in some limited classes I’ve seen some of the challenges the UTV’s will face. So here it goes!

Like BigJim said the UTV class probably does not have more than 20-25 teams right now that are regularly racing at a Score / BITD level. This class is relatively new and the growth has only just started in the past year or two. Score just now chose to make UTV's an actual class. So getting the majority to show up and race what is considered the premier off-road racing series is going to be tough. Especially if you are looking for those big entry numbers at every race. I think the Baja 500 & 1000 will be the bigger draw races as those two are unique and nothing can compare, so many are willing to spend the extra money to race those.

One big hurdle is Score is going to have to reduce the entry fee. UTV's are what most would consider a startup class. Because of this you have teams with smaller budgets and Score's fees are way more than they can or want to afford right now. On top of the entry fee you have a membership fee each driver/co-rider must pay, you have tracker fee’s for each race. And Score mandates you have your chassis inspected & tagged. How many are willing to pay to get inspected? How many are built to Score's specs?

You have people that have gone down to Baja to watch a race, but the logistics to race in Baja are overwhelming to them and have kept them from entering a race. And like said, Baja is the big unknown for many and I would bet 30% of your class has no desire to race in Baja, I would bet 40% of the racers racing in BITD are doing so because they want to race in a premier series but have no desire or interest in racing in Baja. So that has to be considered when looking at car counts and how many are racing right now.

Racing the Pure series is super affordable, just like MDR was for the cars & trucks. BITD is the U.S premier series and is more money, but you are in a controlled environment where everyone feels safe, race logistics are laid out for you and easy to handle. And accommodations are easy to get. I would bet many teams could race most of the Pure series for what it will cost to race one Score race! No one should expect Score to be as cheap as Pure, but I think to attract more racers Score will need to make racing the UTV class more affordable, thus more attractive.

Here is what I think Score needs to look at in order to get more UTV to come to their races right now.

1) Drop the entry fee's to race. One way to do this is to remove the payback. All the other entry fee costs Score needs to run the business. Payback is one fee Score does not pocket, so removing it does not affect their budget. If you are racing to win money, then you are in a losing sport/business. Most teams know going in they are a long shot to win anyways. Their racing for the love to race and the adventure/challenge to finish. If you are willing to race for no prize money, Score could reduce the entry fee significantly! That prize money never pays you back for even a 1/4 of what you spent anyways! Maybe do a $100-$200 per team side bet if you want prize money?

2) Score could offer a One Time Free chassis inspection at Score's headquarters. Set a date where any UTV teams that would like to have their chassis inspected or get help on what they need to get their chassis up to Score standards can do so at no charge.

3) Set up and Class Rep where any UTV team could contact that person for questions regarding racing in Baja. These questions could be regarding rules, who do I call for hotels, question on getting fuel or Pit Support? Or just what do I need to race in Baja. BITD has one, why can’t Score?

4) Have a UTV only Meet & Greet at Score's headquarters. All UTV teams or future teams are invited. Get to meet Roger, Score’s tech person, the UTV Class Rep, other UTV teams and get to ask questions one on one with Score & other teams. Hear right from the source what it takes to race Score and what Score is willing to do to help your class grow.



I also agree with Matt that I think more dealers & UTV shops need to get involved like they have in Super or MotoCorss. But that is not in Score's control. You the individual race team need to approach these dealerships. The manufactures could and should go to these dealerships too and ask them to get involved. Maybe they could offer them incentives to do so?



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While some of the short course UTV races appear very cheap, on the surface, from what I have seen the combination of HUGE jumps and tons of vehicle contact kind of negates the lower entry fees. The top guys have told me that they are replacing a lot of plastic and often are replacing a corner of their cars. In other words the cars tend to get distroyed nearly at every race.

I hear what you are saying on payback but that is what makes us a Pro Class. And by having the Pro Class we more than doubled class entries versus the no-payback class we had last year. I am not discounting the idea, but I think UTV racers want to race Pro and Pro means $$$. Personally I hate side bets. It seems like you never get paid or end up chasing somebody around for the $$$. Kind of like when you have a weak contingency director. Sucks!

The class rep thing is a good idea, but informally we already have this with the Murrays, Joey D, Cory and we at JX. I know the four of us answered a ton of questions for teams racing in Baja for the first time this year.

What if...what if instead of the manufacturers offering contingency $$$ for the top three finishers, they offered X% rebate on each entry. Kind of like 'start money.' It wouldn't be all of it, but it would help. Also it would be great if the OEM's allowed dealers to co-op racer entries or at least a portion of it from their advertising accounts in return for running a dealership logo on the race Utes.

I really like the idea of free cage inspection and maybe even a SCORE clinic to help prospective racers. They could have the free UTV cage inspections and clinics in San Diego, Vegas and Phoenix. Then SCORE could record it and archieve it on Dirt Live for other people to watch who were unable to attend.
 
A arrive and drive program with pit and chase support would make the class grow, like the Wide Open cars but with UTV's. Fair cost and fun to race.
 
I hear what you are saying on payback but that is what makes us a Pro Class. And by having the Pro Class we more than doubled class entries versus the no-payback class we had last year. I am not discounting the idea, but I think UTV racers want to race Pro and Pro means $$$. Personally I hate side bets. It seems like you never get paid or end up chasing somebody around for the $$$. Kind of like when you have a weak contingency director. Sucks!

The class rep thing is a good idea, but informally we already have this with the Murrays, Joey D, Cory and we at JX. I know the four of us answered a ton of questions for teams racing in Baja for the first time this year.

What if...what if instead of the manufacturers offering contingency $$$ for the top three finishers, they offered X% rebate on each entry. Kind of like 'start money.' It wouldn't be all of it, but it would help. Also it would be great if the OEM's allowed dealers to co-op racer entries or at least a portion of it from their advertising accounts in return for running a dealership logo on the race Utes.

I really like the idea of free cage inspection and maybe even a SCORE clinic to help prospective racers. They could have the free UTV cage inspections and clinics in San Diego, Vegas and Phoenix. Then SCORE could record it and archieve it on Dirt Live for other people to watch who were unable to attend.


I know most would not be a big fan of the no payback idea. It's never been considered a great idea. But if entry fee's are the biggest issues with keeping some from racing in Baja then the money has to come from somewhere? Score is not in the business to lose money, and I believe the UTV class is already listed in Level 3 of Score's pricing. Score cant reduce and drop the Insurance part of the fee, they cant remove the land use fee's, if this class wants an end of the season points fund, they cant remove that. So what is left? Lets say Score was to reduce the entry fee part more, then do you know how many classes in Group 3 are going to want the same consideration as they too are budget classes!

Yes Side bets are a PITA! But it is just another option. And dont start me on contingency! I have yet to run a series that has a proper contingency! Years later I'm still owed money & product that I will never see. Most of the time I wont run contingent decals because of this, and the fact that it takes advertizing space from paying sponsors on my cars. I look at it like this, I got a guy giving me $300-$500 per race for his 12X12 space on my car, yet I'm going to put a contingent decal on the car that is not guaranteed money? That devalues my sponsorship. Why should one company pay me and another get it for free?

Anther place of huge savings is in fuel. Race fuel is not cheap and you are not allowed by Mexico Federal Law to bring your own fuel into the country. I dont know as a class how the fuel pricing could be reduced? I do know if running pump gas the price is much less then race gas, but you still have to pay the inflated price from the fuel suppliers who are authorized to deliver & sell fuel in Mexico.

And I know informally you guys to have a Rep, but I think it should be formally as that just ups the level of support for a new team looking at racing Baja or Score who does not know the Murray's or the Jagged X crew. (I had the office phone number for some guy who retired from Polaris not to long ago!! <label for="rb_iconid_10">
icon10.gif
</label>) They need to be able to look on Score's website and see they have a place to turn for info.

I like the manufacture entry fee rebate, but then you would somehow need all the manufacture to get on-board for it to be fair. Sounds great if Polaris offers the deal, but the guy racing his old Rhino is probably going to get screwed and have to pay the full amount, and he is the guy your rebate is really wanting to help.

What if you got a company like Chaparral or Rocky Mountain ATV became a Class/Series sponsor and their sponsorship was to help reduce entry fee's? Each entry fee could be reduce a few hundred dollars and the Class is named after that sponsor (example:Rocky Mountain ATV UTV Score Class 19), plus each team must run the sponsors name across the windshield visor and a underneath their race numbers on each side of the vehicle? Part of this requirment would be checked at Tech, no sponsor decals no race! The only problem is Score is going to want their cut of the money, like what happened on the Amber Racing Fuel deal. If 100% of the sponsors money went directly to reducing entry fee's, I would bet you could get a sponsor, but typically the series will want a buy in deal where they are paid, then the sponsor has to cover the cost of the sponsorship.
 
I think it's mainly the rules, specifically the cage and fuel cell requirements. For the longest time myself and others have wanted to come race Score and Bitd but the safety requirements basically require you to build a car from the ground up, that's not cheap. If the specs were more in line with say a Worcs car I think the car count would go up, stock fuel tank, bolt on aftermarket cage.
 
I have to say the one thing I know they won't get rid of and the one thing I agreed with is all the safety restrictions... These cars are no longer golf carts and are 80-90mph race card the safety stuff may cost a bit to buy and install but it is there to save not only your life but you co-drivers life along with protecting the desert that people don't want us racing in as well... Let's say u have a stock fuel tank and you roll and that plastic tank splits or the plastic cap comes off 1 of two things will happen the worst is u car catches on fire and u get killed or burnt or the second no fire but now you just dumped 10 gallons of gas in the desert and trust me people are always 1 reason away from stopping us from having organized racing in the desert...
 
I agree with Kevin above ^^^ particularly when racing in remote parts of Baja when there is no air support at night. You want as safe a car as possible in these conditions and/or when you are on course with Trophy Trucks.

I believe the OEM gas tanks are very good and trust me they have much more test time on these than a small cell manufacturer has on theirs. But in the end they are not bladder type cells, with check valves and vent tubes that have to hit all four corners so the vent is always up. You don't have to lose your mind on a custom built fuel cell from Harmon or Fuel Safe. If you use a 4 seater as a base car, you can use an off the shelf cell which is significantly less money and if you use the stock, in-tank fuel pump, it is cheaper still.

A lot of people build their own BITD and SCORE legal cages in their garages like Jeff F and Brian from Havasu have done twice. Look at what Cory Sappington has done with his Canned Ham; pretty quick build, competitive car and lots of stock components. The Jagged X Sportsman car last year was said to be built to be BITD legal for $10k, was safe and it had many top 5 finishes overall and won the sportsman championship.
 
My first 2 races were KOH and a worcs race, all because of the low cost of getting the car race ready.
After racing those races, I found a way to build a BITD car. Its the funnest/most intense thing I've ever done.
Start out with a PURE/WORCS series car and go from there. There are several BITD ready 900's for sale right now with some switching to the 1000.
I'm hoping to race the San Felipe 250 this year but not sure how to get my car tagged. Can I assume that a BITD car will pass SCORE. Then theres the issue of chase trucks/pit crew.
 

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