Can-Am Need help, Dobeck AFR 4+.

[Zakka]

I've installed race cams in my Maverick, I'm having trouble getting it to idle.
I have the Dobeck controller but it has been recommended not to adjust the idle fuelling as the factory ECM overrides it.
I have tried disconnecting the factory narrowband sensors and correcting the idle fuelling via the Dobeck with no luck( does not seem to make a difference).
My guage is showing around 14.7 to 15.5 at high idle .
My ECM has been reflashed to remove safety parameters and raise rev limit.
I can get the machine to run but only by accelerating when I start it, it will not run unless I give it some accelerator. I am having to lightly depress the accelerator to keep it running anything below say 1350rpm it will stall.
Dobeck suggests visiting there website for information on enabling there AFR 4+ to work on the maverick for light load applications but have found no information.
I'm assuming I need to richen it at idle to get it to idle ,question is how ?
Anything else I could be over seeing ?

 

[426m]

Positive that the cam timing is correct?

 

[Zakka]

Yea , I thought that also but triple checked, number 1 showing in the hole, timing lines on cylinder 1 parallel with head, cylinder 2 timing marks parallel with ground , spin motor over, number 2 in the hole, cylinder 2 timing marks parallel with head, cylinder 1 timing marks parallel with ground. Correct ? And I'm sure I'm not a tooth out on either as 1 tooth out is a fair wack off parallel with the head. Hmmm


From ' The Land Down Under ' .

 

[Zakka]

I have the Gen 1 cam sprockets which don't need a timing tool as there keyed.


From ' The Land Down Under ' .

 

[mearsman]

Sell the dobeck and get the pc5. Problem solved


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ALBANATE]

Welcome to the world of trying to gain power in a Maverick! LOL, sounds to me like the factory ECU does not like the cams and the changes they make to the map sensor....

A Dobeck or a PCV will be no help. They can not fix the issue you are having and to be honest it is a tough one that I have been fighting for quite some time now. I am getting close, but still fighting it a bit...

BTW whose cams are you running and did they tell you they would work in a Stock ECU Maverick?

Nate
Alba Racing

 

[mearsman]

Subscribed.....


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[JoeyD23]

Interesting thread..

 

[Zakka]

These are FCP cams , apparently they should run with a reflashed computer and a programmer ?
Dobeck have told me I need to have the ECM flashed to disregard the factory narrow band sensors enabling me to tune idle ?
I don't think the dobeck has enough features to control the erratic nature of race cams.
The dobeck seems to react too slowly, the engine revs so much quicker now.Am thinking the map sensor is the main culprit of problems.

So problems atm are, won't idle, won't start without throttling, cuts out sometimes on acceleration , after accelerating then completely off throttle then completely back on there is a huggge delay. I have made a manual adjustment screw on the accelerator pedal to have it idle up and when it does go it freaking hauls.

I'm also running stm clutches rage 3 , gen 2 sec, gold,gold,40 helix, 6 - 1 wieght.

Waiting on Flynt for some advice.




From ' The Land Down Under ' .

 

[the stripping shop]

same problem with pc5 wont adjust idle fuel at all.

 

[ALBANATE]

I can adjust a/f ratio's at idle when I do my reflashes, and it has helped, but even with a corrected a/f ratio at idle it still doesn't want to return to an idle after a rev in neutral... I am getting close.

Nate
Alba Racing

 

[Zakka]

What is your idle set at Nate? I'm pretty sure the idle speed Will need to be set higher via the tps to obtain manifold pressure for the map sensor ?
Same thing really as trying to run a big cam in a late model injected car, the map or maf sensor reads funny down low because of the lack of vacuum or manifold pressure.
On the Ls1 engines hear the ECM is tuned mafless to overcome this.
Is it viable to tune the maverick rotax engine disregarding the map sensor?
Also on the dobeck I realized I was adjusting the wrong mode for the accelerator pump, so with it idled up manually and dialling some accelerator pump fuel into it, it may run ok, yet to test.

From ' The Land Down Under ' .

 

[Zakka]

same problem with pc5 wont adjust idle fuel at all.

Is the pc5 capable of tuning the idle speed?


From ' The Land Down Under ' .

 

[Zakka]

Also contacted Steve from tune monster for his recommendations given my mods,
He seems to think the ' Fuel Monster with Dual Auto tune will fix me up'
Though I'm not convinced and cannot afford anymore trial and error.

 

[the stripping shop]

Is the pc5 capable of tuning the idle speed?


From ' The Land Down Under ' .

doesn't matter how much fuel you put in it at idle stock computer takes over. From the PC5. we have been using a company in town that brakes into stock ecu been getting a lot better. we are getting both ecu back today to test.

 

[ALBANATE]

Also contacted Steve from tune monster for his recommendations given my mods,
He seems to think the ' Fuel Monster with Dual Auto tune will fix me up'
Though I'm not convinced and cannot afford anymore trial and error.

The problem is the signal that the map sensor is sending to the ecu. When we use larger profile camshafts they tend to disturb the consistency of the vacuum moving past the map sensor. When the ecu sees this inconsistent signal it tries fueling for it which causes our idle issue... I do not think ANY fuel controller can fix this issue as no fuel controller can stabilize the map signal or change the acceptable values.

Understand I am not an engineer, nor a Can Am specialist. This is just the way I interpret the issue.

Nate
Alba Racing

p.s. you can not adjust idle with the PCV.

 

[Zakka]

The problem is the signal that the map sensor is sending to the ecu. When we use larger profile camshafts they tend to disturb the consistency of the vacuum moving past the map sensor. When the ecu sees this inconsistent signal it tries fueling for it which causes our idle issue... I do not think ANY fuel controller can fix this issue as no fuel controller can stabilize the map signal or change the acceptable values.

Understand I am not an engineer, nor a Can Am specialist. This is just the way I interpret the issue.

Nate
Alba Racing

p.s. you can not adjust idle with the PCV.

Yes I'm with you on this one, really the capability to tune idle and light load via the throttle position sensor without the map sensor interfering would be ideal.
Looks like I'll be pulling the cams for now so I can race at the end of the month, now to buy a timing tool for the standard cams $$.
I'm thinking a replacement ECM ( Tune Monster) with full capabilities is the real answer $$$$.
Please keep us updated on your progression, I haven't given up , It seems the can am quads have no issue running cams with the fuel monster, but the maverick is a different beast.


From ' The Land Down Under ' .

 

[ALBANATE]

Yes I'm with you on this one, really the capability to tune idle and light load via the throttle position sensor without the map sensor interfering would be ideal.
Looks like I'll be pulling the cams for now so I can race at the end of the month, now to buy a timing tool for the standard cams $$.
I'm thinking a replacement ECM ( Tune Monster) with full capabilities is the real answer $$$$.
Please keep us updated on your progression, I haven't given up , It seems the can am quads have no issue running cams with the fuel monster, but the maverick is a different beast.


From ' The Land Down Under ' .

The Maverick is a completely different beast... If you are even considering the "Tune Monster" why not just build your own. Not trying to knock the guy but his price seems pretty crazy for such a simple ECU system.... while programming is not by any means simple I have a feeling that since you are "down under" you may have to deal with the majority of the mapping on your own even with a "tune monster"

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/microsquirt-engine-management-system-30-wiring-harness-p-131.html

Nate
Alba Racing

 

[Zakka]

The Maverick is a completely different beast... If you are even considering the "Tune Monster" why not just build your own. Not trying to knock the guy but his price seems pretty crazy for such a simple ECU system.... while programming is not by any means simple I have a feeling that since you are "down under" you may have to deal with the majority of the mapping on your own even with a "tune monster"

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/microsquirt-engine-management-system-30-wiring-harness-p-131.html

Nate
Alba Racing

Good call


From ' The Land Down Under ' .

 

[Zakka]

Going with the fuel monster, can smooth the injector signals out at idle with the filtering option, and control decel fuel which likely is causing the engine to stall upon returning to idle. Will be a few weeks before trial .