Is Cory Sappington and the UTVRA relevant?

[State Farm 1953]

Here is a fact.. I am getting a pretty solid and constant 119-120 hp to ground with the turbo car. Yes I get much more PEAK power with a fully built NA motor! BUT it is only over a short window, not across the entire rpm and speed range! I was getting peak of 86 with the Xp1000. The huge difference in the #'s are, the turbo carries 120 hp all the way across until hits the speed limiter. The xp1000, the power comes on earlier and faster, but falls off at a MUCH faster rate!! at a static 70 mph, the turbo car is producing 63 more hp than a xp1000... This is why they are fast, it not the peak power, it about how it sustains the power everywhere from midrange up! These turbo cars are no where in the class of even built NA cars! Just wait until some teams get them figured out!!! It will be sad, because they will dominate. The can ams are running in the mid to HIGH 90's!! But they are still getting the bugs worked out to put solid races in. Dont be surprised when these cars are all running 100 mph next season! How does that compete with you 85 mph NA fully built race car?

Mark - Thank you for posting numbers ! I have always said that I will race my 900 against a 1000 but a turbo is completely different. A handful of turbos while they fine tuning I am even okay with. But to spend the money we spend for prep and entry fees to race a car that will completely destroy the current class makes ZERO sense to me. Im sure the

 

[State Farm 1953]

I'm sure this is how the Rhino and Teryx owners felt when the 900 XP came out though...

 

[george.felix]

Here is a fact.. I am getting a pretty solid and constant 119-120 hp to ground with the turbo car. Yes I get much more PEAK power with a fully built NA motor! BUT it is only over a short window, not across the entire rpm and speed range! I was getting peak of 86 with the Xp1000. The huge difference in the #'s are, the turbo carries 120 hp all the way across until hits the speed limiter. The xp1000, the power comes on earlier and faster, but falls off at a MUCH faster rate!! at a static 70 mph, the turbo car is producing 63 more hp than a xp1000... This is why they are fast, it not the peak power, it about how it sustains the power everywhere from midrange up! These turbo cars are no where in the class of even built NA cars! Just wait until some teams get them figured out!!! It will be sad, because they will dominate. The can ams are running in the mid to HIGH 90's!! But they are still getting the bugs worked out to put solid races in. Dont be surprised when these cars are all running 100 mph next season! How does that compete with you 85 mph NA fully built race car?

While it doesn't kill the argument a turbos not a sure thing....it certainly puts a big hole in it. If people want to race NA cars against other NA cars there are so many if them a place will open up to do that. It's supply and demand. Won't surprise me if BITD is the smaller UTV series because of it though.

What a great opportunity for SNORE or even what someone suggested a series of races like Pure 150, Imperial Valley 250, UTVWC, etc. for the NA Championship.

 

[Utv133]

everone just boycott bitd intell they change pretty easy ...... its all about money 50 to 60 racers short a couple of rounds will open up some eyes

 

[bluediamond]

With the proposal that seems to be favored above arnt you then giving the new Shifter cars a huge advantage then ,assuming they will be reliable , by not having to mess with belts during a race ? Also I'd almost be willing to bet Artic Cat and RG are going to bring out a new car that may be head and shoulders above everyone else's in the handling department. Maybe your shooting off your foot by keeping the Turbos out of the pro class by having to race the other two cars manufactures straight up in the next few seasons ? Maybe the Turbo cars would actually even things after Artic Cat and Yamaha start showing up to races. This is a sincere question and maybe I'm way off.

 

[bluediamond]

I was going to say also a boycott isn't the answer. There are way to many guys that are starting to look at class 1900 from other classes ( I have many friends that are seriously thinking of selling their trucks and buggies and want to buy UTVS ) and those guys are just going to backfill the boycotted spots so the BITD won't even realize your gone. Again , not saying the opinions of others above arnt valid . Just maybe not thought out.

 

[racer56]

Has anyone approached Polaris and asked if they would provide a turbo engine "racer kit" at a reasonable price? This would allow existing race teams to update their current cars and stay competitive without having to build a new car. It would also provide a solution to not having to split up the class.

 

[george.felix]

With the proposal that seems to be favored above arnt you then giving the new Shifter cars a huge advantage then ,assuming they will be reliable , by not having to mess with belts during a race ? Also I'd almost be willing to bet Artic Cat and RG are going to bring out a new car that may be head and shoulders above everyone else's in the handling department. Maybe your shooting off your foot by keeping the Turbos out of the pro class by having to race the other two cars manufactures straight up in the next few seasons ? Maybe the Turbo cars would actually even things after Artic Cat and Yamaha start showing up to races. This is a sincere question and maybe I'm way off.

With the numbers Queen put out there you can't compare a manual trans vs cv clutch. For one not everyone blows a belt in a race. Two shifter can be slower in some situations and did you notice the guy has to take his hand off the wheel to shift. I think you could reasonably say a properly clutched 1000 vs a manual is heads up. Turbo vs NA is another world completely....if it were 1500 cc you'd say not fair so what if it runs like 1500cc?

FYI, for the record I wouldn't be surprised if the manual clutch that everyone's raving about isn't all that. Technically I think a trans with gears and clutch plates is better...but in the technical sections I think cvt will be smoother and more manageable just like it is on a 50 hp dirt bike. Rekluse auto clutch makes your avg rider noticeably faster than with a manual clutch. Anyone know if the Yam will stall in the wrong gear?

 

[racer56]

With the numbers Queen put out there you can't compare a manual trans vs cv clutch. For one not everyone blows a belt in a race. Two shifter can be slower in some situations and did you notice the guy has to take his hand off the wheel to shift. I think you could reasonably say a properly clutched 1000 vs a manual is heads up. Turbo vs NA is another world completely....if it were 1500 cc you'd say not fair so what if it runs like 1500cc?

You are forgetting the fact that a manual transmission with a clutch will put down a lot more power to the rear wheels compared to a CVT car.

 

[george.felix]

You are forgetting the fact that a manual transmission with a clutch will put down a lot more power to the rear wheels compared to a CVT car.

I'd like to see what the numbers are on that....what's a lot? Were just talking and speculating the pros and cons but it will all come out in the wash eventually.

 

[racer56]

I'd like to see what the numbers are on that....what's a lot? Were just talking and speculating the pros and cons but it will all come out in the wash eventually.

Should be at least 10% more efficient. The general rule of thumb for drivetrain power loss is manuals with a clutch 10% and CVT at least 20%.

 

[tatum]

With the numbers Queen put out there you can't compare a manual trans vs cv clutch. For one not everyone blows a belt in a race. Two shifter can be slower in some situations and did you notice the guy has to take his hand off the wheel to shift. I think you could reasonably say a properly clutched 1000 vs a manual is heads up. Turbo vs NA is another world completely....if it were 1500 cc you'd say not fair so what if it runs like 1500cc?

FYI, for the record I wouldn't be surprised if the manual clutch that everyone's raving about isn't all that. Technically I think a trans with gears and clutch plates is better...but in the technical sections I think cvt will be smoother and more manageable just like it is on a 50 hp dirt bike. Rekluse auto clutch makes your avg rider noticeably faster than with a manual clutch. Anyone know if the Yam will stall in the wrong gear?

Of course it will stall if you go to slow in the wrong gear or stop with out pushing in the clutch same as any sport quad or dirt bike. I am surprised how many people think a manual is so hard to drive. BTW they already have a Rekluse for the average rider.

 

[Queen Racing]

Should be at least 10% more efficient. The general rule of thumb for drivetrain power loss is manuals with a clutch 10% and CVT at least 20%.

someone bring one over! lets find out!

 

[racer56]

someone bring one over! lets find out!

What have you seen for powertrain loss on your Polaris builds?

 

[tatum]

someone bring one over! lets find out!

Jason Weller already said it dynos more than an XP but didn't say the numbers. Dustin Nelson is extremely impressed with it and he appears to really be hauling the mail in the videos.

 

[george.felix]

Of course it will stall if you go to slow in the wrong gear or stop with out pushing in the clutch same as any sport quad or dirt bike. I am surprised how many people think a manual is so hard to drive. BTW they already have a Rekluse for the average rider.

I don't think what being said is manual is hard to drive as much as auto is easy to drive especially in technical terrain. May not apply so much to desert racing. It's more apparent with more horsepower like turbo power. The rekluse will solve all if that though. I'd expect the Yam to have a more reliable trans.....that would be worth something.

 

[kornfed]

someone bring one over! lets find out!

Assume you mean a Yami, but if you need a rzr turbo for your test, you can use ours.

We are taking it out to hodge road tomorrow. If anyone is in the area tomorrow stop by. PM if you are going to be there... Will take videos and post tomorrow night...

Let me know if you want to dyno the turbo and we can set up a time.


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[COGNITO]

Maybe the yami should not be able to use a rekluse in this class, just a thought

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[tatum]

Maybe the yami should not be able to use a rekluse in this class, just a thought

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Are you allowed aftermarket clutches? If someone cant drive the Yami with a manual clutch I dont think you guys have anything to worry about. If Dustin Nelson shows up with factory support I would be a little concerned but I'm sure Polaris is already working on a manual trans.

 

[COGNITO]

Are you allowed aftermarket clutches? If someone cant drive the Yami with a manual clutch I dont think you guys have anything to worry about. If Dustin Nelson shows up with factory support I would be a little concerned but I'm sure Polaris is already working on a manual trans.

We can use aftermarket clutches, but they work the same as stock cvt clutches. I am not worried yet

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