BITD Class Vote on turbos

[staggs]

I think it's time Cory S. Should allow the class competitors to vote on the turbo issue as it seems he is making decisions and there is loop holes. I feel he should allow all the racers to vote

1. Factory turbos allowed in pro class or should they be moved to the unlimited class ? After all
It is the racers who pay his tech fee and make this class what it is today. I know there are many who have the same feeling and to keep things fair for the lower budget racer or one who can't afford to build a new UTV every year to stay competitive. I think it's time for cory to finally listen to the racers for one as he has a conflict of interest. This is obviously becoming a big issue and a class vote should be recognized and taken. It's very easy to make a online poll, I am sure Joey would be happy to assist with one on here for us so there is no question to the results? What do you guys thing and let's stay on track here it is a simple question. Should we " the racers " vote on this issue and cory should have to enforce the results ?​

 

[COGNITO]

I would like to chime in.

I would like all the 1900 class BITD and SCORE racers to think about this class, and its future which i think is in jeopardy. UTVs are evolving every time a new OEM lineup comes out. We need to slow some things down a little as far as the 1900 class goes for racing.

I am all about the new models coming out, for the recreation rider who is the backbone of the revenue of the OEM's. But for racing, the class needs to slow down a little so we don't have to build a new car every season to be competitive.

At tech last year, a question arose of whether or not the turbo cars should be able to race the 1900 pro class. I don't think that a short conversation about it, on the spot, is the way to make that decision. There are over 50 utv desert racers and i don't think many of them thought much about it before they answered, again we were all kind of put on the spot and not prepared, didn't have time to really think about it and discuss. Then all of a sudden there was a rule allowing them to join the class.

Maybe i am wrong, maybe everyone thought long and hard about it, but i didn't last year so i assume not many others did either.

Cognito is factory sponsored by Polaris, and no one here is in support of the turbo cars in the 1900 pro class, no matter what brand utv. I do not want 40 other racers to feel like the playing field is not fair because they cant build a new car each year. That might lead to the field thinning out, and racers not coming because the factory guys can always have the latest and greatest easier than the grassroots racer. If this happens, this class will start to go backwards.

If this class goes backwards, another series will pop up more tailored to utv only, and be organized and run well, and then there is just that many more races out there, but less car counts per series. Some people might like this, but i like to see 40 competitors out there battling, it mixes things up and you never know what could happen, plus there is more money in the pot! Or you never know, it could be the next big thing, but there is only so many weekends in the year and sometimes too much is a bad thing.

Desert racers please think about this subject. I dont want to see any one point anyone out really, i just want to see the class have a solid foundation, and i think right now it is a bit flimsy. I would like everyone involved in the class to have a vote on the future, so that any animosity cant be funneled down to one or a few people.

The turbo cars look to me like a pain in the ass as far as tech goes, because of the restrictions. This attention needs to be paid to the other 45 racers out there with true 1900 PRO cars, rather than 5 turbo cars who are going to need all of the attention to make sure they are playing by the rules, which still seem to be a little up in the air. Move the turbo cars to the unlimited class, then the rules get freed up and they require less attention as far as tech goes, i think everyone is happier in this situation and both classes can grow.

 

[jaggedx]

I think that most of the utv racers in BITD would say that there are some fundamental issues with the way the class is being handled. Many of the issues are not as black & white as we may think. The utv class is very unique and Because of the rapid development of the base vehicles, we face new decisions and issues each new model year . It will be virtually impossible to come up with a comprehensive set of rules that will make every one happy in every situation. I do however feel that the class as a whole should have input an involvement in the classes development.
Because of this,I have spoke with Cory and he has agreed to let me address the class at a short meeting after the Vegas to Reno drivers meeting on Thursday.
This will not be an open forum but more of an information gathering thing. I have a short questionaire that addresses many of the most common issues.
This is just a start in an attempt to bring more transparency and clarity to the class.
Please plan to attend, you input will be very appreciated.

BSJX

 

[Sport10]

GREAT IDEA guys! This is how it should be handled. As an outsider looking in and always reading about this and that and who said what.THIS however is how to keep it all together and moving forward. Good luck to all of you, be safe!

 

[rockstarcustomz]

See you there

 

[rico]

I think that most of the utv racers in BITD would say that there are some fundamental issues with the way the class is being handled. Many of the issues are not as black & white as we may think. The utv class is very unique and Because of the rapid development of the base vehicles, we face new decisions and issues each new model year . It will be virtually impossible to come up with a comprehensive set of rules that will make every one happy in every situation. I do however feel that the class as a whole should have input an involvement in the classes development.
Because of this,I have spoke with Cory and he has agreed to let me address the class at a short meeting after the Vegas to Reno drivers meeting on Thursday.
This will not be an open forum but more of an information gathering thing. I have a short questionaire that addresses many of the most common issues.
This is just a start in an attempt to bring more transparency and clarity to the class.
Please plan to attend, you input will be very appreciated.

BSJX

Great point, I agree that transparency is critical for those racing within the class to feel confident and satisfied with the eventual outcome of this topic. What is the plan for soliciting feedback from teams that are not present? It makes sense that every team that is racing in the affected BITD UTV classes (pro-production and unlimited) should be given the chance to weigh in on this issue, even if they are not in attendance for this specific meeting. If full transparency was the goal, every team's response would be published so it was public knowledge of how the cookie actually crumbled.

 

[ROTR]

What about the teams that are not able to race V2R? Is there a way to get the questionnaire out to all the registered 1900 and 2900 race teams?

 

[the stripping shop]

The question is when will utvra stick to rules for complete season instead of changing many times for a manufacter/racer to compete. If class is split or not split utvra/bitd should figure out how to keep pro/ NA class growing. Ex let everyone update there car without buying a new one. Ex can am update rear end to turbo rear end,900 to 1000 motor and suspension. If class is split to turbo and NA class turbo should not be limited at all why restrict let them run.

 

[COGNITO]

rules should not just change on the fly, there should be some sort of committee and some more accountability for any rule changes.

Just moving turbo cars to unlimited class and retain the 1000cc limit but free up the rest of the special rules for them, will get rid of a ton of pain and drama

 

[jaggedx]

Any racers not coming to V2R are welcome to share their input. Email me and I will send you the same questionnaire which you can return to me via email. bill1@jaggedx.com
After the meeting I hope to be able to share the results with everyone. At that time we should be able to see where the focus needs to be leading into next season.

 

[State Farm 1953]

Any racers not coming to V2R are welcome to share their input. Email me and I will send you the same questionnaire which you can return to me via email. bill1@jaggedx.com
After the meeting I hope to be able to share the results with everyone. At that time we should be able to see where the focus needs to be leading into next season.

Thank you for doing this Bill, I sent you an email this morning.

 

[acme]

As a person interested in the class a few here are a few additional considerations for your conversation:

1) In addition to Turbos, I suggest belt driven versus other forms of drivelines should also be addressed so as to continue in the spirit of keeping current cars competitive and not chasing new/mid year model releases.

2) Tire size conversations should also be considered and decided for a period of time as that is also a major change as a car built around a 33" vs a 30" tire would be a game changer.

3) Lock the rules for 2-3 years at a time: Anything new that does not conform can run unlimited during that time.

IMHO: If the rules for the "Naturally Aspirated 1000CC Production Class" were: Naturally aspirated/factory induction, 1000cc, Belt driven, 30" max tire size. You would continue to see the growth in the class and keep the 50+ cars currently running in the game for 2-3 years and the better mouse traps could be run in the unlimited class or start a "1000cc Open Production Class" for the turbos/alternative drivelines and allow for larger CC N/A motors...

 

[450grl]

I'm not racing in desert, but as someone who has experience in making/updating rules for a current UTV class, I think locking in rules for a set period of time is a really good idea. The Unlimited Class exists for a good reason - it's a great place to put cars that don't conform to current rules and still gives them a great place to test and race newly released models. Nothing is more frustrating than sinking a ton of money and effort into a race vehicle that is already outdated halfway through a season. Some type of consistency would go a long ways.......just my humble .02.

 

[BRONCOBOY]

I,m right at the end of my BITD build and the new turbo factory sponsored cars just took the wind out of my sails. With 50 grand invested and the possibility of upgrading (another 20 grand plus) to the Turbo running gear I might look at a used 10 car to go racing. I built this car for my kids and I to have some fun but no one is giving me anything but a few deals on parts. At some point this class will no longer make any sense dollar wise!

 

[Johnny]

I would want a turbo pro production,, stock computer ecu class like the direction Cory is taking it for new year not a unlimited class for the pro turbo cars ... and the current Pro 1000 class for the guys that like going slower
and all class tires up 33"

and No Class changes till the end of the season if a new car does not fit in a class it races UNLIMITED

 

[staggs]

I would want a turbo pro production,, stock computer ecu class like the direction Cory is taking it for new year not a unlimited class for the pro turbo cars ... and the current Pro 1000 class for the guys that like going slower
and all class tires up 33"

and No Class changes till the end of the season if a new car does not fit in a class it races UNLIMITED

This is a good idea just make a separate turbo production class. All of these are good points and I hope we can come to a resolution and keep the class growing. Cognito has good points also and this is why i decided to start a thread after reading all the rule changes and talking with a few other fellow racers. BS @Jagged seems to be working towards a solution and that is also great news. To go with the proposed rules right now and having them change all the time is out of hand, saying you have to buy a ecu from cory with special tape on it is not a solution at all to the big issue here. Rules should also not be allowed to change at any time during a race season to accommodate new changes and upgrades. Everyone small or big is spending alot of money to race this class.

 

[staggs]

I,m right at the end of my BITD build and the new turbo factory sponsored cars just took the wind out of my sails. With 50 grand invested and the possibility of upgrading (another 20 grand plus) to the Turbo running gear I might look at a used 10 car to go racing. I built this car for my kids and I to have some fun but no one is giving me anything but a few deals on parts. At some point this class will no longer make any sense dollar wise!

This is exactly the big issue here you should be able to build a car and be competitive with it for a few years, and not have rules change at any given notice, sometimes when we don't even know. I am also in this same boat with the car I built this year!. This class needs to stay at the level it has been and affordable so it will continue to grow.

 

[SixGunMatt]

This situation is funny when you think about getting into desert racing. I've had friends racing Class 9 for years, which is relatively inexpensive to get into. Some other friends have been racing Class 10, and that always seemed out of reach. However, both these classes (and many others) have been stable for several years.

It seems like you could dump more money up front into a 10 car and keep it for many years while still being competitive, whereas the relatively lower cost of 1900 may be enticing up front, yet bite you in the butt the following year.

Lock in the rules for a set duration, all "new" models could compete in Unlimited or perhaps a sportsman class. Just my two cents.

 

[jaggedx]

This situation is funny when you think about getting into desert racing. I've had friends racing Class 9 for years, which is relatively inexpensive to get into. Some other friends have been racing Class 10, and that always seemed out of reach. However, both these classes (and many others) have been stable for several years.

It seems like you could dump more money up front into a 10 car and keep it for many years while still being competitive, whereas the relatively lower cost of 1900 may be enticing up front, yet bite you in the butt the following year.

Lock in the rules for a set duration, all "new" models could compete in Unlimited or perhaps a sportsman class. Just my two cents.

Totally agree with the stability of the other limited classes, There is definitely an advantage with regard to car longevity. However, one of the unique aspects of the UTV class is that it is driven very powerfully by the OEM's
who continue to build better and faster vehicles each model year in their race for market supremacy. this is the biggest reason for the growth of the class. five years ago the idea of racing a rhino through the desert averaging just over 25 MPH was not appealing to many but the staggering improvements in the vehicles have opened up a huge opportunity for many who could probably not race otherwise. The other limited classes are stable, yes but they are also somewhat stagnant. The cars don't really change much nor does the number of entries.
I think we can definitely come up with a way to keep this class growing and still create some longevity for the racers who are already vested.

 

[chill720]

I have a non turbo 2014 XP4 legal race rzr I will sell anyone. I was at Parker 250 in Jan and realized that living in TN is the major part of our problem as we can't just go test in our back yard for same conditions as the west coast guys can, be it at that we still came with 2 rzrs last year to all races (1925 skipped V2R) but anyway, we were there. work has me out until Oct this year.
With that being said it does suck big time to feel like it is the "factory" teams vs "privateers" and it isn't just a new model every year for rule changes sometimes its twice a year. So if Polaris comes out with something July.....Rule Change. Can-Am Sept.....Rule Change. Artic Cat Oct......rule change. I mean it can really get out of hand. And can I afford $50k every year for a new UTV to be competitive? Sure, but who wants to? it takes half the year to get the thing fully dialed anyway! haha. You can race a Trophy Lite Waaaaayyyy cheaper and it is a real spec class. Not saying it needs to go that way 100% but I have to agree with those guys like every 3-4 years maybe set the rules in stone.
Trust me the Artic Cat thing will really screw with production class. So then will the CC rule change? I miss the way it was 2 years ago at V2R!!!!