george.felix
George
The clusterf*** continues.........
32" Tire for BITD 2016
- Thread starter SimsMotorsports
- Start date
I'm curious, did JoeyD ask the racers about how they felt a land rush start would be at the UTV World Championship Races ? and get a overwhelming reply of fuck that .. YES ... but Joey thought it would be good for business right LOL dicktatorchips lol
and I was asked about the tire size and yep my sponsor makes a 32 so im good with it ..
and I was asked about the tire size and yep my sponsor makes a 32 so im good with it ..
the stripping shop
RACER - UTVUnderground Approved
now that's funny right there.
This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say; You will kill the class if you look at what is good for you today, and not what is good for the class as a whole tomorrow.
I know most if none of you were around when the manufactures were in class 8, 7 & 7s. Or when Ford was big time in the Stock truck classes in BITD. But you will repeat history if you follow the same path those classes did.
the stripping shop
RACER - UTVUnderground Approved
I wonder what bill class vote was for 32 or 33.
baja specialist
Well-Known Member
Ok so everyone is in agreement that we want and need a larger tire. And after reading all of the post a lot of guys thought it should have been a 33'' instead of a 32'' myself included. But I have been following this post on here and another one on Race Dezert that is on tire size. And after reading everything and finding out some more info I believe that there is nothing really wrong with the 32'' tire decision. You (Nikal) have pointed out that it should have been a 33 because that is a more common LT tire size and it seems the company that you keep bringing up is BFG. But after reading everything from here and on RDC it seems that nobody makes a 33'' tire that is worth a shit anyways. Even you pointed out that BFG has been contacted on a weekly basis and asked to make a 33'' KR2. "Also at this time BFG is not scheduled to build a 33" KR2 and will not build a 32". They get calls daily asking for a 33" KR2 for the limited buggy classes, and right now BFG has no plans to do so." And from what I read there 33'' LT tire right now kind of sucks and is even heavier than the 35'' race tire that they do offer.
Here's the things that we do know. LT tires are made for street use, they have crappy side walls and as a rule they don't make good off road racing tires. And at this time there are several UTV tire manufactures that do offer a 32'' off road racing tire. These are also the same companies that are already supporting UTV racing and sticking their necks and dollars on the line.
So I guess my point is, what's wrong with the decision on the 32'' tire when no one makes a 33'' that's worth a shit.
JoeyD23
#utvunderground
Hell no and thank God I didn't. Turned out to be one of the coolest starts ever and certainly not as terrifying as half you guys were making it out to be!!! lol
I was being sincere in wondering if Cory asked you guys.
I agree with tire size increase. Just not sure I agree with 32".
JoeyD23
#utvunderground
Great point. Still think that 33 would be better But that at least makes sense.
33" would be great but im happy with the 32" and why should we not keep supporting the guys who have been supporting the UTV market.. and yep thats the Guys like ITP. lobo ect .. I know ITP has supported alot of racers in the last couple of yours so I like paying it forward ..
Team Green
Reid Nordin - UTVUnderground Approved
Bigger is always better but, the bigger the tire the more you will spend to adjust those larger tires to your race car. This goes for any class. Just look at the truck classes and how they have evolved from 33 to 40+. Be careful what you ask for! It really doesn't matter if the class rule is 28" as long as everyone plays by the rules.
The problem with this whole subject is a rule was changed, no one was asked or notified officially and the announcement came from a Racers mouth and not the organization!
Wayne the reason I have brought up BFG is, they just made a big effort to enter and support the UTV class and within only a few months after they release their tire to the class, the class makes an abrupt change and increase tire size. When BFG was working on making this new KR2 for the UTV class they were told the max tire size was 30". You tell me as a business owner would you not be pissed if you spent $100s of thousands of dollars to build a tire for a specific class, and a few months after you release it, you get told "New Rule Change" We now have a new size! If I was Yokohama, General Tire or Toyo, I would not attempt to invest and throw our hat in the UTV ring as the UTV class just proved to be unstable, and my companies investment is worth to much to take a chance like BFG did.
The reason why BFG has said they will not build a new KR2 in the 33" at this time, is the cost is not cheap to develop a tire, even if its just increasing or reducing its size from an already developed tire. BFG's Off-Road Racing Division has to lobby not only their upper management, but also Parent company Michelin, when they want to spend money to develop a new tire that is specific to racing only. Its not like this KR2 tire is going to end up on your Toyota Camry or your F150.
Who on here & on RDC says that nobody makes a 33" tire worth a $h!t? What class are the talking about? I know you have been racing for a very long time, but its been in the Bike / Quad classes and I assume you never paid much attention to the Buggy / Truck classes. If you did you would know that Yokohama makes probably one if not the best 33" race tires around. I would bet that the Yokohama Supper Digger 3 is not only better then 95% of the current UTV tires made, but will be as light or lighter then most of the new 32" UTV tires being made. Then you have the Mickey Thompson "Baja Pro", which is another good, light buggy tire. Then you have the BFG Baja TA (Steel Belted) which is an Awesome tire available in 33", but I agree its to heavy for a UTV and most limited 1600 buggy classes. Class 10 & 12, class 3000, 5 and some smaller truck classes run it (Some still do) Now BFG released the new lighter 35" KR2 & class 10 & 12 have jumped to the 35" which is lighter, because they took the Yokohama technology and built a nylon corded tire. Then you have the General Grabbler AT & General Grabber "Red Lables" which the Trophy Lite class runs in a 33", and some of the 1600, 5/1600 & 9 cars have run with some success. Oh and BTW no one in these other 1600 limited buggy classes run BeadLock wheels like the UTV guys all do. We run a 33" Yoko on a super light weight spun aluminum wheel with Zero Issues! Must be some pretty good tires that we can run them on a 7lb, 15 inch spun aluminum wheels and not be destroying the wheel!( I keep waiting for someone in the UTV class to look outside the UTV box and run a spun wheel and save a bunch of un-sprung weight.
So there are allot more good tires out there, and by confining the UTV class to only the UTV industry does not help the class as a whole. Remember this UTV craze will bust eventually. Sustainability for the long term should be looked at as it's your investment we are talking about.
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BRONCOBOY
Member
I plan on running ITP tires and fine with a 32" tire, I wish they would have made it for a 14" wheel. Weight is key on any race car, especially rotating mass. The amount of money needed to support a 37" tire over a 35" tire on a class 1 car is $20,000 plus in brakes, axles, trans upgrades, increase heim sizes etc and usually you need to start from scratch with a new car.
This is why I posted the previously questioning current drivetrain problems. I believe we are going to see alot more DNF's with this tire rule until the aftermarket come up with some solutions for the CV and axle. Are the new Polaris turbo CV's Larger? Axles larger?
Also want to thank Adam from AirDamn clutches for some intelligent insight of what teams are doing to help minimize thier CV issues but still have not heard what is the most common failure in the stock CV.
I wouldn't mind sitting down with Roy at ProAm and talking about making a chromoly cage and star. Proam makes them everyday for the buggy's it's not a issue with production it will be a issue convincing him to produce it.
This is why I posted the previously questioning current drivetrain problems. I believe we are going to see alot more DNF's with this tire rule until the aftermarket come up with some solutions for the CV and axle. Are the new Polaris turbo CV's Larger? Axles larger?
Also want to thank Adam from AirDamn clutches for some intelligent insight of what teams are doing to help minimize thier CV issues but still have not heard what is the most common failure in the stock CV.
I wouldn't mind sitting down with Roy at ProAm and talking about making a chromoly cage and star. Proam makes them everyday for the buggy's it's not a issue with production it will be a issue convincing him to produce it.
///Airdam Clutches
Active Member
its actually a grease made by a company called Certified Laboratories in Texas. they developed it for mostly oil and industrial specific applications. the guys sell me graphite in a spray can and the salesman one day asked me about the grease. he had a fancy display and test unit in his truck he uses to test and show you the ability and compare it with whatever grease you are currently using. when he asked me what i used he shook his head and said, "well thats the best on the market and the hardest to show up but i'll show you what i can do" the Mobil grease i have used, i found to be the best for my application from trial and error. it withstood the highest heat and would stay where you put it for the most part. although it held up extremely well in all of his tests in the display, it was clearly a failure compared to his grease. he had specific make-up and content of the grease but unfortunately i am looking at the tube now and it doesnt have any info on it. it is a moly grease with a high graphite content and i think it uses purified or refined soybean oil as a base rather than petroleum. this helps give it a higher temp it will withstand continuously. the tests and display he had was pretty slick. it made me buy a case of grease!! everything from torching it, to putting it in a bearing under water, to filling a cup with sand and watching the grease repel the sand out of a rotating item. i havent got to implement this new grease in my equipment yet, i just got it and will start this weekend using it but in the tests i saw, its going to out perform any and all grease on the market.
although i never thought about adding anti-sieze to grease, i have some nuclear grade anti-sieze that has a 2500+ degree operating temp. that high nickel and graphite content would absorb heat as well as help with lubrication.
again, i see the bars breaking at the splines. and have had teams that use sumner and rockford 300M cups and bust them faster than OEM cups. most teams i see are running OEM cups with Sumner bars. i will say i dont see near about the problem on the can-am as you see with the polaris. i think it is purely because of the fin design on the can-am cups. i have thought this was a wonderful idea as soon as i saw it on the maverick. i would think it would also be a huge benefit on any polaris team to try to have rockford or sumner or another brand make them some inner cups like these pictured below. although the vast majority of axle failures are the bars breaking, i do see cups that are blue'd after they break the bar when being replaced. meaning the cup was hotter than hell, which may have helped lead to the axle bar break. shock loads is what breaks the bars, and the cups, landing under power will break rear axles regardless of the cup or grease, or boot.
although i never thought about adding anti-sieze to grease, i have some nuclear grade anti-sieze that has a 2500+ degree operating temp. that high nickel and graphite content would absorb heat as well as help with lubrication.
again, i see the bars breaking at the splines. and have had teams that use sumner and rockford 300M cups and bust them faster than OEM cups. most teams i see are running OEM cups with Sumner bars. i will say i dont see near about the problem on the can-am as you see with the polaris. i think it is purely because of the fin design on the can-am cups. i have thought this was a wonderful idea as soon as i saw it on the maverick. i would think it would also be a huge benefit on any polaris team to try to have rockford or sumner or another brand make them some inner cups like these pictured below. although the vast majority of axle failures are the bars breaking, i do see cups that are blue'd after they break the bar when being replaced. meaning the cup was hotter than hell, which may have helped lead to the axle bar break. shock loads is what breaks the bars, and the cups, landing under power will break rear axles regardless of the cup or grease, or boot.
baja specialist
Well-Known Member
Wayne the reason I have brought up BFG is, they just made a big effort to enter and support the UTV class and within only a few months after they release their tire to the class, the class makes an abrupt change and increase tire size. When BFG was working on making this new KR2 for the UTV class they were told the max tire size was 30". You tell me as a business owner would you not be pissed if you spent $100s of thousands of dollars to build a tire for a specific class, and a few months after you release it, you get told "New Rule Change" We now have a new size! If I was Yokohama, General Tire or Toyo, I would not attempt to invest and throw our hat in the UTV ring as the UTV class just proved to be unstable, and my companies investment is worth to much to take a chance like BFG did.
The reason why BFG has said they will not build a new KR2 in the 33" at this time, is the cost is not cheap to develop a tire, even if its just increasing or reducing its size from an already developed tire. BFG's Off-Road Racing Division has to lobby not only their upper management, but also Parent company Michelin, when they want to spend money to develop a new tire that is specific to racing only. Its not like this KR2 tire is going to end up on your Toyota Camry or your F150.
In the words of Johnny A, "Not to be a dick" but how could they not see this coming. I am not in this business and build cabinets for a living and even I saw this coming for a while. I don't think in this case it is the UTV class proving to be unstable as much as it was poor planning and timing on the part of BFG. I am in the same boat with Maxxis, another large tire company. I have been racing on a 30'' tire that has yet to be released and I love it. I first tested this tire last year and they have been dragging their feet in releasing it to the point that now it is not relevant for racing. That is why last year I told them to start working on a 32'' or 33'' tire and they are. But like all large companies they don't do anything in a hurry.
The reason why BFG has said they will not build a new KR2 in the 33" at this time, is the cost is not cheap to develop a tire, even if its just increasing or reducing its size from an already developed tire. BFG's Off-Road Racing Division has to lobby not only their upper management, but also Parent company Michelin, when they want to spend money to develop a new tire that is specific to racing only. Its not like this KR2 tire is going to end up on your Toyota Camry or your F150.
In the words of Johnny A, "Not to be a dick" but how could they not see this coming. I am not in this business and build cabinets for a living and even I saw this coming for a while. I don't think in this case it is the UTV class proving to be unstable as much as it was poor planning and timing on the part of BFG. I am in the same boat with Maxxis, another large tire company. I have been racing on a 30'' tire that has yet to be released and I love it. I first tested this tire last year and they have been dragging their feet in releasing it to the point that now it is not relevant for racing. That is why last year I told them to start working on a 32'' or 33'' tire and they are. But like all large companies they don't do anything in a hurry.
BRONCOBOY
Member
Adam
I wonder if there is enough material on the Polaris cup to machine some cooling fins on it, this is common on the 930 cv the 1600 guys use.
Once again thank you for sharing your knowledge, this is so much more helpful that the pissing match going on here about 1" in tire size!!!
I wonder if there is enough material on the Polaris cup to machine some cooling fins on it, this is common on the 930 cv the 1600 guys use.
Once again thank you for sharing your knowledge, this is so much more helpful that the pissing match going on here about 1" in tire size!!!
Wayne I spoke to Cory at the Mint 400 Contingency and asked him to his face if and when the class would increase the tire size. He told me to my face that he has no plans to increase tire size and since he makes and enforces the rules, the 30 was here to stay. I'm not the only person he has told this too. The larger tire size has been a hot topic for awhile now. So my assumption is BFG would have been told the same thing 6-12 months ago when they discussed building this tire? As you say these things take time, so I'm sure BFG has had this UTV tire in the works for awhile.
And take away the BFG issue. The fact is the 33" tire has shown to be sustainable in the sport for a long time. Why not conform now, as it will only be a few years from now or a new Rules Panel Committee that will be governing the UTV class and they will probably make the change anyways.
The only thing I can think of as to why Cory has chosen the 32" tire is for the fact that some of the current crop of UTV tire manufactures are making them. I think Cory has been so entrenched in the UTV class for so long, that he probably has no idea what other classes are doing or what they have done. Maybe he never knew that the 33" is a more standardize tire in the sport or in mass production within the big tire manufactures?
For those who dont know what BroncoBoy is talking about. Here are two 930 CV that have been machined to not only lighten rotating mass, but to cool the joint & axle.
930 CV joint with machined fins
Machined out 930 CV joint
