32" Tire for BITD 2016

[JoeyD23]

Let's see what sizes CST makes then we will see what the rules will be set too.

I Kid I Kid.

In all seriousness the rules should not be based around BFG or anyone else but to pick 32" and not 33" knowing there is a ton available in the LT range at 33 is just stupid. Has to be an agenda in there someone to make that decision.

 

[baja specialist]

it should be a 33'' tire. What is the logic behind a 32? I think a 1600 car can run a 33 and our cars now have a larger wheelbase than them and more wheel travel not to mention we have more horsepower than they do.

 

[dnf736]

It was ITP, they did it.

Jokes aside I was told by a tire rep that SCORE is actually 33". I don't have my rule book in front of me so I cant confirm but thats what was said.

 

[tatum]

Let's see what sizes CST makes then we will see what the rules will be set too.

I Kid I Kid.

In all seriousness the rules should not be based around BFG or anyone else but to pick 32" and not 33" knowing there is a ton available in the LT range at 33 is just stupid. Has to be an agenda in there someone to make that decision.

CST makes a 32.

 

[dmurray]

I heard that several of the truck tire companies asked Casey and Cory over the past year, and with the push from BFG and several 32 options now available BITD saw value added by getting Truck tires into the UTV class to all the racers. I believe they asked for a 32". Not sure why that size was selected. It is a step in the right direction. Pretty sure this was a BITD request.

 

[NIKAL]

I heard that several of the truck tire companies asked Casey and Cory over the past year, and with the push from BFG and several 32 options now available BITD saw value added by getting Truck tires into the UTV class to all the racers. I believe they asked for a 32". Not sure why that size was selected. It is a step in the right direction. Pretty sure this was a BITD request.

This is laughable! Either you are flat out making this up, or you are just gullible. Why would BFG spend the money it takes to develop a new tire in a 30", then push BITD and Cory to allow a 32", which they dont make and never have? It would make 10X more sense for BFG and the other LT tire brands to request a 33" as this tire could then be marketed to the limited buggy classes and the UTV class.

And BITD is not even going to listen to BFG as Casey is all up in General's Tire's Butt as they are the ones sponsoring his series. Oh and General does not make a 32" LT tire so they did not go to Casey or Cory! No one does! Its not the standard in truck tires. If BFG is going lobby to anyone its Score as BFG supports Score.

Oh and since both series are trying to follow the same rules, did anyone go to Score and say, hey we are looking to increase the tire size? What size do you think we should increase the max too? Why even have a tire size max? The only classes that I know that do are spec series classes or TT which maxed out at 41 inch.

Even if you found a tire in the metric sizes like a LT265/75-16 which = 31.6 inches. Per the rules the side of the tire must show 32" printed on the sidewall, so that eliminates the use of metric sizing, which you would not use anyways as you would need to use a 16" or 17" wheel.

Face it, there is something going on behind the scenes as the only tire companies making a 32" are a handful of UTV specific tire companies. No way this 32" rule was pushed by Casey @ BITD and the LT truck tire manufactures.

This like so many other rules and procedures would be so much more transparent and less questionable if you had a committee or someone who was not racing in the class.

 

[dmurray]

Just going by what Casey and Cory told me. Maybe I am gullible. As the assumptions you make do no good. Either way we dont care. I did not name them all as it is not my place to just talk. But was told there were several requests mostly from BITD down. I did not list them because its not my place nor relevant IMO. Maybe there is something in the works...... I dont know so I am not assuming. They do list a 30 and 31 for the record currently on the General spec sheet. Maybe you should call BITD or Corey and clarify since it seems you know. For the record we run ITP. They have a 32" And no that had nothing to do with it either. We plan on running 30" tires so again we are just trying to help be "transparent". No need for the "assumptions" with no merit. And yes the goal is to have some sort of group to advise on rules, and help make the process more transparent. I believe that is what Bill and Cory, and a few others are in the process of working on now and have said. If you want to help please help, as just splatting stuff online does very little to bring unity among this awesome class. And lastly it was announced at VtoR SCORE is running the same rules as BITD moving forward to standardize things.

 

[JoeyD23]

CST makes a 32.

Another coincidence I'm sure. (Insert rolling eyes emoticon)

 

[the stripping shop]

Oh and since both series are trying to follow the same rules, did anyone go to Score and say, hey we are looking to increase the tire size? What size do you think we should increase the max too? Why even have a tire size max? The only classes that I know that do are spec series classes or TT which maxed out at 41 inch.


maybe wrong but I thought 39" was max in BITD and 35" for class 10 were max.

 

[Johnny]

oh ya im going to call Score and tell them to let you guys run 33" tires so that way you can have 12 or 15 32" tires laying around for BITD and 12 or so 33" tires for score

 

[Rynomx785]

Anybody concerned about 32" tires and having more belt issues?

What clutching changes will you guys make to run a 32?

 

[BRONCOBOY]

I'm just a keyboard racer still finishing my car up but what is currently failing on the Xp1000 drive train axles. Do we have a common CV failure if so is it the star or the cage?. Are we breaking the axles at the cv? I have been racing and prepping class 1's for years we pay alot of attention to the CV's and the upgrades -chromoly cages and broaching for larger axles, detailing the star etc.

I have heard of no upgrades to the most commonly raced xp1000 driveline other than a axle, So how are we going to make these live with a 32" tire?

Oh ya then there is the belt issue too!

 

[///Airdam Clutches]

there are folks who cryo and polish their cups and stars, some who break their axles in on a lathe running them for an hour or more, some have vent tubes in the boots to allow the boots to expel heat, some are trying heavy moly lube greases, there are all sorts of tricks folks are trying. i cant say that there are many successful tricks, because i help many teams, and i see many failures regardless of the tricks they use. when you land a jump and your foot is still in the throttle, the shock load applied to the axle is too great to bear and typically the axle bar will break at the star. i have seen hundreds of boots fail, from the axle getting too hot, the boot expands, and then pops. i have found a grease that will handle more heat than anything else on the market. i use grease on my equipment, some of which get very hot after hours of continuous operation. i used to use a Mobil grease that would handle 500 degrees as it stated, but after tests with a bunsten burner you could clearly see the grease breaking down in the 380 degree range and becoming a liquid state at 420 degrees. when this grease would begin to puddle around 350-380 degrees the viscosity is gone. the grease is not doing its job anymore. i found a super amazing grease, that will withstand over 450 degrees before starting to break down because of its high graphite content. graphite is a lubricant in itself, and does a wonderful job at expelling heat. this grease will stay in tact upwards of 400 degrees and remain viscous. in a test the vendor showed me, you can clearly see how much better their grease is than anything else on the market. i just got a shipment of it and i am going to start implementing it into my equipment.

i see a well prepped axle cup running upwards of 200-250 degrees with a laser thermometer after 15 miles of continuous speed of 70+ mph.thats the temp of the outside of the cup. i am sure the inside is well over 300 degrees, which will break grease down, then the grease loses its viscosity, and the axle gets even hotter. i see a few teams that cryo and polish their axle cups and stars and balls and detail every little piece of the axle, their cups seem to run much cooler, but they also run a proven grease they like. i watched them test two years ago with different types of grease and saw clear and difinitive effects of different greases. different temps of the cup, with only changing grease.

i am sure every little trick you can come up with helps to aid in axle longevity if you are running the flats and lake beds. but realistically, when you hit a wash at 60+mph and the back tires land while you are still in the throttle under power, grease and prep work to the axle dont matter. you're gonna shatter the cup/star/bar.


i wished they had went to a 33" tire because the math would have worked out perfect. each manufacturer has a 15% gear reduction transmission. if you stepped up from a 30" tire to a 33" tire, and installed the 15% gear reduction transmission, your clutch would stay the same, the MPH would stay the same, and your load on the clutches would be the same. there would be no negative side effects. with a 32" tire you are going to have to either install the 15% gear reduction and live with some loss of top speed, or leave the stock trans in and try to clutch it to hold a belt with a super high final drive ratio from the 32s. i still think its a lot easier on drivetrain and clutches with the 15% gear reduction transmission.

polaris has the Highlifter Edition polaris XP1000 that has the 15% lower geared transmission
Can-am has the 2014 XMR Maverick that also has a 15% gear reduction transmission.

 

[SimsMotorsports]

I was just relaying a message and the only way i found out was because i needed to know what tire size i could build my new car around. I thought everyone would be excited to have the opportunity to run a larger tire, unfortunatly just like all the other posts all i see is more negative feedback.......

 

[dnf736]

Brandon, you could have said 33's and people would have bitched why not 35's. Human nature.

Airdam has it right though with the most logical argument in support of a 33" tire. nice work.

 

[NIKAL]

there are folks who cryo and polish their cups and stars, some who break their axles in on a lathe running them for an hour or more, some have vent tubes in the boots to allow the boots to expel heat, some are trying heavy moly lube greases, there are all sorts of tricks folks are trying. i cant say that there are many successful tricks, because i help many teams, and i see many failures regardless of the tricks they use. when you land a jump and your foot is still in the throttle, the shock load applied to the axle is too great to bear and typically the axle bar will break at the star. i have seen hundreds of boots fail, from the axle getting too hot, the boot expands, and then pops. i have found a grease that will handle more heat than anything else on the market. i use grease on my equipment, some of which get very hot after hours of continuous operation. i used to use a Mobil grease that would handle 500 degrees as it stated, but after tests with a bunsten burner you could clearly see the grease breaking down in the 380 degree range and becoming a liquid state at 420 degrees. when this grease would begin to puddle around 350-380 degrees the viscosity is gone. the grease is not doing its job anymore. i found a super amazing grease, that will withstand over 450 degrees before starting to break down because of its high graphite content. graphite is a lubricant in itself, and does a wonderful job at expelling heat. this grease will stay in tact upwards of 400 degrees and remain viscous. in a test the vendor showed me, you can clearly see how much better their grease is than anything else on the market. i just got a shipment of it and i am going to start implementing it into my equipment.

i see a well prepped axle cup running upwards of 200-250 degrees with a laser thermometer after 15 miles of continuous speed of 70+ mph.thats the temp of the outside of the cup. i am sure the inside is well over 300 degrees, which will break grease down, then the grease loses its viscosity, and the axle gets even hotter. i see a few teams that cryo and polish their axle cups and stars and balls and detail every little piece of the axle, their cups seem to run much cooler, but they also run a proven grease they like. i watched them test two years ago with different types of grease and saw clear and difinitive effects of different greases. different temps of the cup, with only changing grease.

i am sure every little trick you can come up with helps to aid in axle longevity if you are running the flats and lake beds. but realistically, when you hit a wash at 60+mph and the back tires land while you are still in the throttle under power, grease and prep work to the axle dont matter. you're gonna shatter the cup/star/bar.


i wished they had went to a 33" tire because the math would have worked out perfect. each manufacturer has a 15% gear reduction transmission. if you stepped up from a 30" tire to a 33" tire, and installed the 15% gear reduction transmission, your clutch would stay the same, the MPH would stay the same, and your load on the clutches would be the same. there would be no negative side effects. with a 32" tire you are going to have to either install the 15% gear reduction and live with some loss of top speed, or leave the stock trans in and try to clutch it to hold a belt with a super high final drive ratio from the 32s. i still think its a lot easier on drivetrain and clutches with the 15% gear reduction transmission.

polaris has the Highlifter Edition polaris XP1000 that has the 15% lower geared transmission
Can-am has the 2014 XMR Maverick that also has a 15% gear reduction transmission.

I assume your magic grease that you dont want to say the name of is Bel Ray Anti-Seize Lubricant, in the kick ass cocking tube? The stuff is not cheap, $30-35 a tube, but its the best. You know its good when after 500 miles its a bitch to clean out, is still is in a paste consistency and will stain your hands for a week.

I have a prep thread on the RZR forum and I talk about Bel Ray. I also talk about Swepco and how we used to mix Anti-Seize in the Swepco. Also Caterpillar Desert Gold is another good grease. Back in 2003 I had a deal with a company called Huskey Lubricants. They have a red grease called Dyna-Mite Red that is really good for wheel bearings, bushings ect.. The red will actually impregnate itself in the bushing, turning it red. I worked with them and they made a prototype version of Bel Ray which I used and it too was awesome, but upper management did not see the value of putting it into production as it was going to be a nitch market as they saw it.

Regarding making a better CV, that is easy, just not cheap. Right now everyone is running stock or some form of after market CV's, but even the aftermarket stuff is just off the shelf parts. They are not race specific. What you need to do is to have chomolly stars & 300M cages made. Some will broach the stars to have more or bigger splines. There is not a single 930 CV racing with stock cages. We all use 300M or chromolly cages and most use after market stars too. Most polish and some like me Cryo my parts. After each race they get mag'd for cracks. Another trick is to run undersized balls as it free's up the CV and reduces heat. We all would take the CV housing and machine fins or cut the middle out to lighten and dissipate heat quicker. You can now buy 930 CV this way. And CV boots, I have yet to see a good quality racing boot made yet. I have talked to someone about this and it can be done as again you dont see many boot failures with guys running 930 CV's. Also using a band clamp is dumb. If there was a machined lip in the CV housing, and a lip built into the boot that locks the two together, then you add a zip tie to ensure they cant come apart as full droop. Plus I think the pressure issues in the boot is because of using crap grease, band clamps and the fact that most are using a thicker axles and stock boots, so the axle cant slide in the boot. This causes the boot to pull & distort as you see all the time and eventually fail. The boot is there to keep dirt & water out of the CV joint, not to hold the grease in. If your flinging grease out of the boot then your not using good grease and getting to hot.

Regarding axles everyone thinks bigger is better. But the fact is bigger breaks more parts down the line. You want an axle that is built like a torsion bar that will actually twist and absorb the shock load. Sway-a-Way was the first to develop this. I'm sure most Summers Bros' axles are built and heat treated to twist. But your axle size should be made factoring your weight and tire size. I used to have Rob Moore build my axles & stub axles. He builds parts for the NHRA Top Fuel & Funny Car guys. Talk about crazy horse power and shock loads.

But what do I know??

 

[NIKAL]

I was just relaying a message and the only way i found out was because i needed to know what tire size i could build my new car around. I thought everyone would be excited to have the opportunity to run a larger tire, unfortunatly just like all the other posts all i see is more negative feedback.......

Brandon, I dont think anyone is not excited about a bigger tire, I just think most are surprised & confused as to where 32" Max came into play. Like myself and other have said, 32" is not a common size and actually eliminates more brands then adds. Very few LT tire company make a 32, and probably wont, unless they are UTV specific and this is their nitch market.

 

[Kalop]

I assume your magic grease that you dont want to say the name of is Bel Ray Anti-Seize Lubricant, in the kick ass cocking tube?

Boooommm !! WTF ... you just ruined opportunity for another 100 unanswered phone calls. J/K

 

[BiggJim]

I assume your magic grease that you dont want to say the name of is Bel Ray Anti-Seize Lubricant, in the kick ass cocking tube? The stuff is not cheap, $30-35 a tube, but its the best. You know its good when after 500 miles its a bitch to clean out, is still is in a paste consistency and will stain your hands for a week.

I have a prep thread on the RZR forum and I talk about Bel Ray. I also talk about Swepco and how we used to mix Anti-Seize in the Swepco. Also Caterpillar Desert Gold is another good grease. Back in 2003 I had a deal with a company called Huskey Lubricants. They have a red grease called Dyna-Mite Red that is really good for wheel bearings, bushings ect.. The red will actually impregnate itself in the bushing, turning it red. I worked with them and they made a prototype version of Bel Ray which I used and it too was awesome, but upper management did not see the value of putting it into production as it was going to be a nitch market as they saw it.

Regarding making a better CV, that is easy, just not cheap. Right now everyone is running stock or some form of after market CV's, but even the aftermarket stuff is just off the shelf parts. They are not race specific. What you need to do is to have chomolly stars & 300M cages made. Some will broach the stars to have more or bigger splines. There is not a single 930 CV racing with stock cages. We all use 300M or chromolly cages and most use after market stars too. Most polish and some like me Cryo my parts. After each race they get mag'd for cracks. Another trick is to run undersized balls as it free's up the CV and reduces heat. We all would take the CV housing and machine fins or cut the middle out to lighten and dissipate heat quicker. You can now buy 930 CV this way. And CV boots, I have yet to see a good quality racing boot made yet. I have talked to someone about this and it can be done as again you dont see many boot failures with guys running 930 CV's. Also using a band clamp is dumb. If there was a machined lip in the CV housing, and a lip built into the boot that locks the two together, then you add a zip tie to ensure they cant come apart as full droop. Plus I think the pressure issues in the boot is because of using crap grease, band clamps and the fact that most are using a thicker axles and stock boots, so the axle cant slide in the boot. This causes the boot to pull & distort as you see all the time and eventually fail. The boot is there to keep dirt & water out of the CV joint, not to hold the grease in. If your flinging grease out of the boot then your not using good grease and getting to hot.

Regarding axles everyone thinks bigger is better. But the fact is bigger breaks more parts down the line. You want an axle that is built like a torsion bar that will actually twist and absorb the shock load. Sway-a-Way was the first to develop this. I'm sure most Summers Bros' axles are built and heat treated to twist. But your axle size should be made factoring your weight and tire size. I used to have Rob Moore build my axles & stub axles. He builds parts for the NHRA Top Fuel & Funny Car guys. Talk about crazy horse power and shock loads.

But what do I know??

I just hope everyone keeps using that Wizbang Grease and Cryo treatments.....Then they can keep Fist f**king their axles in the field. The only axles we have ever broke were self inflicted and should have broke.

 

[NIKAL]

Boooommm !! WTF ... you just ruined opportunity for another 100 unanswered phone calls. J/K

Well let me F-Up a few more wet dreams!

I spoke to the guys at Jackson Motorsports who handle the BFG Racer program. Yeah they were not told, nor did they asked for a 32" tire in BITD, as DMurray was led to believe from Cory. As they said BFG spent allot of time & money to build a UTV race tire, and from their prospective would not want to see a larger tire, as they just built and released this new tire for the class. Its a big deal for a major tire manufacture to commit to building a race specific tire that will have on track support at all Score races. Also at this time BFG is not scheduled to build a 33" KR2 and will not build a 32". They get calls daily asking for a 33" KR2 for the limited buggy classes, and right now BFG has no plans to do so.

So for those who say or believe BFG was part of the big push for the 32" tire, and if Cory is telling you this. I would question everything that is being said to you. Call Jackson Motorsports off-road division and ask them. See what Paul has to say. I would love to have spoke to Frank DeAngelo and see what his thoughts are.