SpeedCat77 Baja Facts

[BiggJim]

For those that are old enough to remember. Tiger ATV did somthing similer back in the height of the 3 wheeler days. You could purchase a hand made, built one at a time race bike that was track ready and production class legal. I dont think this is any different. If anyone can put up the 1000k to have a car built at RGs shop why would this not be considered production class legal ?

Don't quote me....but I believe the term "production" comes from the fact that anyone can walk into the dealership and buy one. The Murry's and S3 did not race their X3's in the "production" class at Vegas to Reno because they were not yet available to the public. But at least they were debuted....Hell that wildcat hasnt even had detail released to the public.

 

[BiggJim]

Heres the rule for UTV's in BITD

Pro Turbo Production UTV Class definition:
The Pro Turbo production class
vehicles are built using production Turbo UTV’s, manufactured by registered
companies, i.e. Polaris, Can-Am, Artic Cat, that issues Vin #’s. Companies must produce a minimum number of 1000 units per year. UTV’s must have a minimum of 2 seats. OEM engines must be usedunless specified for the class.

 

[Doug8765]

So racing a utv / sxs costs as much as a class 10 ?? STUPID


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[jajl22]

Looks pretty cut and dry for BITD, 1000 units produced or no dice...Guess we will see if that holds true come Parker. Hopefully RG can borrow Santa's elves after Christmas.

I think it would be pretty lame if the X3 did not compete and the AC was allowed too with out meeting the requirements but lame stuff has happened before.

Score is a whole different can of worms, I personally believe allowing them to race production was premature, let AC announce the new vehicle and allow the public to see it before the RG cars are allowed to race, don't ban the RG cars just make them wait till the official AC announcement. that is my opinion.

 

[Doug8765]

Na people in this class are rich this is not a cheap sport


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[Factory UTV]

Minimum unit sales are part of the AMA Homologation rules as well. Doesn't seem to me that Arctic Cat came anywhere near meeting these rules. I have never raced BITD or SCORE, but raced two wheels off road for a couple decades and helped run a few large events (1000 + entries). From all I read here, it appears to me BITD and SCORE run real lose with the rules. Sucks for those who play by them...

 

[george.felix]

I would like there to be a true production car class where I could afford to come out.
George, you coming out again to the LACC races next season? I never got a chance to talk with you but I got behind you 2 to 3 times and you moved over before I even let off, I appreciate that a lot.

Yeah that's some fun racing and great folks! I'm running a desert battle wagon so I try not to tempt anyone to nerf me and wreck their car. My first race I got t boned hard right behind the driver side door going into a turn coming off a straightaway. It rocked the car pretty good. As we crossed the finish a guy in a black car was giving me the stink eye I guess for letting him ram me. Then I saw his whole front end was missing. I thought my car must be hurting back there but he hit my door post and barely scratched the aluminum. So I don't want anyone to get destroyed by a pink car....

I'll be back......come by say hello.

 

[tatum]

You are right, manufacturers have always built race cars in the factory so they can race in a production series. The thing you are very wrong on is that they don't build one at a time. They build them in the factory because in order to be considered production they need to make 500 or a 1000 units not just one. You don't make one car at a time in a factory. The fact that you can buy one from a dealer does not make it a production car!!!

So if its the same frame, suspension pick up points, motor, trans,etc as the production unit but comes doorless and with a race cage thats not good enough to race production class. Should everybody have to buy a car and strip it down and pay a fabricator to make it race legal and spend even more money than buying a production based race car? Im pretty sure this car is cheaper than your used NA car.

 

[NIKAL]

Not trying not to be a dick, but quoting BITD rules or complaining about production units made is dumb! Try reading the Score rules. No where in the Score rules does it say you need "X" amount of units built. The rules are very open and liberal with Score. It looks like RG's cars used stock pivots, which is a Score rule. The rear trailing arm is production on the new Wild Cat, so that was legal. The rules say you must run the stock engine and trans in the stock location. If RG was able to prove or show to Score & Art that the new Wild Cat X is going to have the Yamaha engine and a CVT, then it would be up to Art to OK the vehicle as stock.

Again not trying to be a dick, but you need to read the Score rules as written and posted on Score's website, not BITD rules. If these rules are not acceptable, then contact Score and make them clean up and specify what you want. BTW I like the 33" tire rule and how it's written. Are the new Tensor tires going to be BITD legal? Been told they measure 33".

http://score-international.com/raceinfo/score-rulebook/utv-classes/pro-utv-fi/

 

[BiggJim]

Not trying not to be a dick, but quoting BITD rules or complaining about production units made is dumb! Try reading the Score rules. No where in the Score rules does it say you need "X" amount of units built. The rules are very open and liberal with Score. It looks like RG's cars used stock pivots, which is a Score rule. The rear trailing arm is production on the new Wild Cat, so that was legal. The rules say you must run the stock engine and trans in the stock location. If RG was able to prove or show to Score & Art that the new Wild Cat X is going to have the Yamaha engine and a CVT, then it would be up to Art to OK the vehicle as stock.

Again not trying to be a dick, but you need to read the Score rules as written and posted on Score's website, not BITD rules. If these rules are not acceptable, then contact Score and make them clean up and specify what you want. BTW I like the 33" tire rule and how it's written. Are the new Tensor tires going to be BITD legal? Been told they measure 33".

http://score-international.com/raceinfo/score-rulebook/utv-classes/pro-utv-fi/

Lmmfao!!! Before you try not to be a "dick" you better go back and re read my post....I never said a thing about score....I said in "BITD"

 

[zambo]

In SCORE, the stock classes such as stock full etc mandate a minimum of 5000 units to be considered stock production vehicles, plus you have to use not only the stock pivot points but the stock control arms as well. Not stock "concept" but the actual factory arms. You can change the shocks and springs.

The best thing the UTV classes can do is keep the classes as stock as possible. When you start needing to spend 100k to be competitive you are gonna see car counts go from 20 down to 4 in a heartbeat. Trust me. Or just make the same mistakes that have been made over and over and over in the past which resulted in taking fun competitive full classes and turning them into skeletons. Lots of people have 40k to race with. The number of people who have 100k to race with is a LOT smaller, and many of them will opt for something other than a UTV if they have to spend that much.

Also, part of driving is knowing what you can and can't do with a vehicle. That includes breaking the thing. Don't let people spend their way to the podium, make them earn it behind the wheel. Anybody can get in an unbreakable car and mash the skinny pedal down and hold it there. Just one man's opinion from the outside looking in.

 

[facteryfmf]

So racing a utv / sxs costs as much as a class 10 ?? STUPID


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Yes. Difference is there is the possibility of receiving factory support... 100k+ a year

 

[tatum]

In SCORE, the stock classes such as stock full etc mandate a minimum of 5000 units to be considered stock production vehicles, plus you have to use not only the stock pivot points but the stock control arms as well. Not stock "concept" but the actual factory arms. You can change the shocks and springs.

The best thing the UTV classes can do is keep the classes as stock as possible. When you start needing to spend 100k to be competitive you are gonna see car counts go from 20 down to 4 in a heartbeat. Trust me. Or just make the same mistakes that have been made over and over and over in the past which resulted in taking fun competitive full classes and turning them into skeletons. Lots of people have 40k to race with. The number of people who have 100k to race with is a LOT smaller, and many of them will opt for something other than a UTV if they have to spend that much.

Also, part of driving is knowing what you can and can't do with a vehicle. That includes breaking the thing. Don't let people spend their way to the podium, make them earn it behind the wheel. Anybody can get in an unbreakable car and mash the skinny pedal down and hold it there. Just one man's opinion from the outside looking in.

Most of the top teams are already building new cars every year and you still have to know how to prep,drive,and save the cars. Even TT guys have to not destroy stuff.

 

[tatum]

1900 class is as close to production as its going to get. 900 class next year is open ecu so you're about to see some crazy stuff coming.

IMO the biggest advantage to this is getting rid of limp mode. Lambert and now Millen have already proven its not all about HP.

 

[NIKAL]

Lmmfao!!! Before you try not to be a "dick" you better go back and re read my post....I never said a thing about score....I said in "BITD"

I know your didn't, and that's why I did not respond directly to you. There were more then you quoting BITD rules, when infact this car raced a Score race and not a BITD race. Right now BITD and it's rules do not apply to this UTV as it has not entered a BITD race yet. We expect to see one at Parker, but until then and until Arctic Cat makes their announcement we do not know what the real deal is. I agree BITD probably will not allow this vehicle to race in the production class, until Wild Cat releases it to the general public, or explains how you can purchase a race ready, turnkey car and announces the date and qty to be built.

Like I said per the Score rules this Wild Cat X looks like it met the rules, and had to have Score Tech (Art) OK it and let it race.

 

[NIKAL]

In SCORE, the stock classes such as stock full etc mandate a minimum of 5000 units to be considered stock production vehicles, plus you have to use not only the stock pivot points but the stock control arms as well. Not stock "concept" but the actual factory arms. You can change the shocks and springs.

The best thing the UTV classes can do is keep the classes as stock as possible. When you start needing to spend 100k to be competitive you are gonna see car counts go from 20 down to 4 in a heartbeat. Trust me. Or just make the same mistakes that have been made over and over and over in the past which resulted in taking fun competitive full classes and turning them into skeletons. Lots of people have 40k to race with. The number of people who have 100k to race with is a LOT smaller, and many of them will opt for something other than a UTV if they have to spend that much.

Also, part of driving is knowing what you can and can't do with a vehicle. That includes breaking the thing. Don't let people spend their way to the podium, make them earn it behind the wheel. Anybody can get in an unbreakable car and mash the skinny pedal down and hold it there. Just one man's opinion from the outside looking in.

Zambo I have been preaching this for a long while now. When the manufactures quit sponsoring teams are events, you will see counts disappear just as BITD Stock classes did. It's all history and the best part is the UTV classcan look back and see the mistakes Stock Full, Mini & SUV made and try not to repeat it.

 

[JoeyD23]

If it was so production and so factory then how come Arctic Cat didn't put out one press release, make one social post, or any mention of this effort??? This whole thing seems super weird to me. Bad ass cars, amazing drivers, great potential, but there is still something extremely strange taking place here...

 

[BiggJim]

I know your didn't, and that's why I did not respond directly to you. There were more then you quoting BITD rules, when infact this car raced a Score race and not a BITD race. Right now BITD and it's rules do not apply to this UTV as it has not entered a BITD race yet. We expect to see one at Parker, but until then and until Arctic Cat makes their announcement we do not know what the real deal is. I agree BITD probably will not allow this vehicle to race in the production class, until Wild Cat releases it to the general public, or explains how you can purchase a race ready, turnkey car and announces the date and qty to be built.

Like I said per the Score rules this Wild Cat X looks like it met the rules, and had to have Score Tech (Art) OK it and let it race.

I guess I was the only one throwing BITD rule references....The Score Official Rule book doesnt even reference UTV's in the 2011-2015 rule book.

 

[the stripping shop]

I spoke with Casey on this issue. Here was what he said in a nutshell:

- There has never been an age rule. Teenagers race all the time on bikes. He uses discretion on how old the racer would be, who the parents are, experience, etc.
- He met with Robby in a room prior to the race to discuss this scenario. He then spent time to watch Max drive. He made the decision to let him race being that he saw a very talented kid behind the wheel with one of the most experienced teachers and co-drivers this sport has.
- Robby was in fact suspended, but according to Casey he can make the call whether or not to lift such a suspension and that is in the rules. He said he made the exception because he loves father & son things like this.
- Casey did admit that the vehicle was not legal from a rules standpoint but once again said that it is up to him / them to make exceptions.
- As it pertains to Cory, there will be some changes, I will not speak as to what those are as I believe he and Cory may want to make the announcement. Cory will remain in place but there will be some changes that I think will make many of you happy but I am not sure will make you too excited being that your fellow factory backed competitor will still be telling you if your car is legal or not.

With all this said, speaking with Casey is always good. He always welcomes anyone with a question or concern to contact him at his office. He doesn't read emails unless they are printed, he doesn't read this site unless someone cries to him about it and he will not text message you. You need to call him to talk but he is always there to listen and to respond. While we may not see eye to eye on everything, it goes without question to say that we share a mutual respect for one another. Casey love this sport, loves what he does and at the end of the day its his ship to sail so while we won't always like what he does we do have to respect it as he does make his decisions based on what he feels is the best for the sport at that time.

Make your voices heard. Call him with your concerns but don't complain unless you have a solution!!!



Right there is your rule on this class BITD/SCORE can do what ever they want. There series because they will make what ever decision they want, when its only good for them not for the sport.

 

[tatum]

If it was so production and so factory then how come Arctic Cat didn't put out one press release, make one social post, or any mention of this effort??? This whole thing seems super weird to me. Bad ass cars, amazing drivers, great potential, but there is still something extremely strange taking place here...

There was one sitting at Estero that they have been testing with doors that open and a bolt on cage. You should have asked Robby.