Racers burned at Lucerne

It'sYourLegacy

Banned Por Vida
(Edit; thanks Sand Shark): https://www.race-dezert.com/forum/threads/call-for-support-racers-burned-at-lucerne.130958/
As far as I know, this is the most comprehensive account of what happened and most importantly how to help both racers and their families recover. The fact that this happened quite some time ago with no interest shown here is obviously indicative of what has long been feared regarding the gravitation of those 'in the know' to much more manipulative sources of interaction with racing fans. Thank God that a few brave souls took the time to not only tell this story but inform the average fan that fellow community members actually needed some help.
What obviously follows this type of tragedy (or 'used to' when forums were respected as desperately needed tools used to improve both community and safety in general in the sport) is the question of where do we go from here.
As it stands now, we have two individuals currently paying a high price for what we all should have been building and did not. This fact is evidenced by the current lack of immediate response in a first charitable and then we-will-never-let-this-happen-again manner.

If we cannot talk about what happened, why and FIX IT so that our own children and grandchildren do not suffer the same tragedies(?)....God will surely ask us all why we flat out rejected the forum tools put in our hands for the allure of...what?

These two families deserve more and every enthusiast who straps themselves in to a car moving forward does as well.
(True) Community + (never ending discussion re: Safety = (True) Offroad Legacies (period).
 
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So what exactly happen? I saw some mention of it, but never a full story on how and why it happen.
 
So what exactly happen? I saw some mention of it, but never a full story on how and why it happen.
...with respect to the owners of this forum:
"...I copied the above title so that it could easily be cut and pasted in to a search engine for the original story on another forum. As far as I know, this is the most comprehensive account of what happened and most importantly how to help both racers and their families recover..."
 
Questions surrounding OEM fuel rail issues have been at or near the forefront in a good share of non-driving related injury and/or recall issues during the 999cc era (since say 2014). If those actually building and racing these machines, let alone those of us who simply own them, would begin discussing these basic safety issues on forums versus gravitating to easily manipulated social media? We would all benefit from much safer OEM machines for obvious reasons.
 
...with respect to the owners of this forum:
"...I copied the above title so that it could easily be cut and pasted in to a search engine for the original story on another forum. As far as I know, this is the most comprehensive account of what happened and most importantly how to help both racers and their families recover..."

You do know the forums are connected?

Here is the link for those that want to read

https://www.race-dezert.com/forum/threads/call-for-support-racers-burned-at-lucerne.130958/
 
Questions surrounding OEM fuel rail issues have been at or near the forefront in a good share of non-driving related injury and/or recall issues during the 999cc era (since say 2014). If those actually building and racing these machines, let alone those of us who simply own them, would begin discussing these basic safety issues on forums versus gravitating to easily manipulated social media? We would all benefit from much safer OEM machines for obvious reasons.

There has never been a recall for a fuel rail issue to my knowledge. There is speculation the fuel rails may have failed, but no concrete evidence. I have seen on a Can Am X3 a fuel line become disconnected because it was no properly connected to the fuel rail. This did not cause a fire by the way.

On race cars they move and take things a part so it is also hard to tell if it is a factor failed part or because they were messing with it. Could of been an electrical issue that ignited the fire. With all the plastics on a stock car they go up quickly. I think the Safecraft fire suppression systems or something like it would be a wise purchase on any SXS. It will give you extra time to get out. I am shocked they do not require a suppression system on all desert cars.
 
There has never been a recall for a fuel rail issue to my knowledge. There is speculation the fuel rails may have failed, but no concrete evidence. I have seen on a Can Am X3 a fuel line become disconnected because it was no properly connected to the fuel rail. This did not cause a fire by the way.
I was referring to the recalls involving the shielding of the exhaust from just that speculation as there is rarely a car left to investigate afterwards. It is also speculation that billet fuel rails immediately flooded the market due to this 'best guess'. I doubt that there is a more dangerous portion of the car involving the possibility of fire than fuel under pressure involving multiple potential points of failure. We should all be concentrating on every single safety weakness as a community and getting the word out on every model produced every year if there is a change. To have it be suggested that a plastic OEM part is involved anywhere on a car's fuel system is unfathomable to me and should be a 'sticky' somewhere that we all should be contributing to on a regular basis. We can, should and have a responsibility to make the OEM portions of these cars better in real time without the racing community (first) suffering over what we all should be sharing in the first place. Builders and racers cannot catch everything that the factory chooses to 'lighten up' and we all should have each other's back when we spot anything not up to what even simple time or light duty will eventually claim, let alone the desert.

"..On race cars they move and take things a part so it is also hard to tell if it is a factor failed part or because they were messing with it. Could of been an electrical issue that ignited the fire. With all the plastics on a stock car they go up quickly...."

Great point (and to the manufacturer's defense) regarding messing with anything on any car in the first place. It would be nice if we could get to the point of at least containing the fuel if an OEM system is deemed (basically) sufficient by the community at large. We know now (generally) where the safety weaknesses are on these cars due to thankfully those who have bravely paid the sacrifices forward for us. Not studying each one of these critical systems in depth each and every model year if necessary in even a cursory manner (imo) dishonors those families sacrificing for all of us when these accidents happen.

"...I think the Safecraft fire suppression systems or something like it would be a wise purchase on any SXS. It will give you extra time to get out. I am shocked they do not require a suppression system on all desert cars.

Couldn't agree with you more on both counts.
 
I'd like to add that a lot of us who have grown up in the last century on single rider machines (myself included) have a lot to be grateful for in terms of what these two men and their families just went through and will for quite some time. They have certainly blessed us all with a wake up call in terms of the importance of always 'pre-flighting' our multi-passenger cars with a fine tooth comb regardless of how this happened (remember, this car was likely properly prepped and driven by four previous individuals beforehand with no problems).
These lightly built offroad side-by-sides are infinitely more dangerous than anything we could only hurt ourselves piloting before. It will take a true community effort (simple discussion birthing action) to ever change the former portion of this important comparison.
 
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...so, do we require fire suppression systems in desert race cars and encourage them everywhere else...or do we discuss how these things happen (at the very least) and/or wait for tragedy to happen again? How about 3 out of the four as the ideal?
It is getting hard to believe that we all truly care about our fellow enthusiasts let alone our next generation of young drivers with far less real world experience behind the wheel from day one.
 
Sad deal - wish for the best to all involved.
Fact is fire is all of our worst fear - has happened before and will happen again. Be it garage built SxS to mega $ CL1 & TT - it happens. What has changed over time is EFI and fuel pressure - the 9/1600 and even our old 7s were carbed, and even then there were fires. So what the fail point is - anyone's guess. Lots of possible fail points..

Had a front low seat of a burning buggy at a local race - track crew dumped 8 fire extinguishers followed by 1000's of gallons from the water truck - and never was able to get the fuel fire out. Not sold on suppression systems.

After reading PCI Scotts post it is clear survival is our responsibility - and we can all learn from what occurred. We are upgrading to 2 layer driver suits and other protective gear. Have always kept a sharp knife in easy reach, now adding another for the co-dog in the event of a window net/ seat belt issue. Part of out pre-race was practicing getting out with eyes closed quickly. Also going to add another in cab fire extinguisher.
 
Nice to hear (and I'm certain these two racers feel the same) that their current struggle is motivating others to gear up right away.
I'm still of the opinion that we can frankly discuss the various weaknesses of these OEM fuel systems and benefit from doing so. It doesn't sound as if anyone is pointing to what was installed on the aftermarket side. The discussion need not concentrate on what happened here (we'll never know) yet simply ignoring the scenario in general is not helpful to anyone.
There are people out there who know these OEM fuel systems like the back of their hand.
Let's learn about them together.
 
What amazes me is the number of people, either recreationalists or racers that do not wear gloves. Don't just wear gloves, wear an approved fire rated glove. Don't wear MX glove either as those will melt to your hands in a fire. If you are involved in a fire, even if you aren't an occupant you need to have fire protection for your hands as well. Ever tried to grab onto something hot, bare handed?

I used the Safecraft system mounted above my fuel rail on my play car with a fire extinguisher inside and outside of my cage. Never carry extra fuel in the bed of a SXS.

Stay safe people!
 
terrible that this happened. I hate seeing people get hurt in UTV's regardless. These vehicles have rapidly moved from farm equipment that barely went 30 mph to high speed heavily modified race vehicles. We need to be safer, share info, etc. We can always improve, but you must take your safety into your own hands. I see things all the time that I shake my head at. Fire extinguisher, fire suits, gloves, etc. are mandatory........and never carry fuel near the engine!
 
Who said that it was...and why would the manufacturer matter here anyways?

I can see us discussing the presence of some kind of plastic part in this system as described (which nobody seems to have any knowledge of to date)...yet why aren't we discussing the troubleshooting of fuel systems in general or why OEM systems fail (in general; especially with hybrid system parts) or even gauge/alarm-based monitoring?

It's as if the fuel safety issues involving these machines was never an issue and still isn't today which we all know is horse hockey.
 
It's sourcing, period. Unfortunately you get what you pay for and manufactures find every conceivable way of reducing costs to increase profits. If you compare the components that are used in main stream (on road) automotive production, you will quickly see that they do not differ. Unfortunately sourcing products designed for on road use does not address the sever duty and abuse that today's UTV's are subjected to. Legacy, although manufactures should bear some responsibility, and should continue to develop a better product, anything can and will happen in an off road environment. It really is up to the end user to assure their own safety, (Team Green) is all over it.
Regards,
 
Yes it was directed at them .. legacy year 2014 I am no hardy boy but ?? There is ALOT more hands building these machines than in the years past. Do I agree they all need a fire suppression system. Absolutely. They are small cars. lots of potential for both electrical fire and gas I believe a lot are caused by electrical


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Yes it was directed at them .. legacy year 2014 I am no hardy boy but ??

I'll take issue with the inference and copy the quote in question:
"..Questions surrounding OEM fuel rail issues have been at or near the forefront in a good share of non-driving related injury and/or recall issues during the 999cc era (since say 2014)..."

Polaris both creating and dominating the 999CC category for all of those years equals their machine being in "...a good share of non-driving related injury and/or recall issues during the 999cc era (since say 2014)..." regardless. Fuel rail issues have plagued this category of machines from day one and I challenge anyone to deny it. The aftermarket would have never bothered with billet fuel rails had they not. We can make every machine out there safer than they came from the factory if we study each manufacturer/machine's strengths and weaknesses without bashing manufacturers or builders. I have real issues with my first year Polaris and have not been silent regarding them yet safety threads should (as you implied) put these obvious biases aside.

There is ALOT more hands building these machines than in the years past. Do I agree they all need a fire suppression system. Absolutely. They are small cars. lots of potential for both electrical fire and gas I believe a lot are caused by electrical

If it's electrical or gas or both we would all like to get to the bottom of whatever it is for each manufacturer's machine rather than speculating afterwards or simply staying silent which is simply unconscionable in my opinion.
 
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