Official Blue Water Desert Challenge thread
- Thread starter Bret901
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Heybeerman
Active Member
Roughest race I can remember.
facteryfmf
Looking For a Few Good Men - UTVUnderground Approv
You're old. You can't remember much.
rockstarcustomz
RoCkStAr CuStOm MoToRsPoRtS - UTVUnderground Appro
It was definitely a rough course. Broke 2 shocks and ended our day as a DNF...again...I only have one thing to brag about, our 1st lap at 31 min! Feel pretty good about that. Now, if I can only keep my car together, I know I can catch a lot you boys out there! 
badassmav
Well-Known Member
If you don't mind Lacrecia, may I make an observation about your broken shocks? It is my guess that you broke the rear shocks, and that they snapped at the lower section of the shock shaft, just before it attaches to the bottom eyelet that bolts to the a arm. I noticed in your build here that your cars' shock mounts share the same mounting orientation as the stock Maverick. If they have not yet broke, they will eventually.It was definitely a rough course. Broke 2 shocks and ended our day as a DNF...again...I only have one thing to brag about, our 1st lap at 31 min! Feel pretty good about that. Now, if I can only keep my car together, I know I can catch a lot you boys out there!
Notice on the attached image, our rear shock mounting bolt, and how it is mounted in the same direction as the a arm pivot, and is mounted at an angle perpendicular to the shock pivot axis. Now, look a picture of the stock rear Maverick lower shock mount, and if you can visualize the swing of the a arm, you will see that the motion of the a arm introduces a bending load on the shock shaft due to the orientation of the lower shock mounting bolt, and the position of the upper shock mount. The top shock mounting position only complicates this problem, because it is mounted far in front of, not square to, and outside of, the upper arm pivots, instead of in between them. Because of the placement of the upper and lower shock mounts, every time the shock strokes, it is like bending a piece of metal back and forth, until its eventual failure. The Murray's experienced the same problem at the Parker race at the beginning of the season. They hit a hard g-out, and sheared off both shock eyes, in exactly the same place, and at the same time. They replaced the old 5/8" shafts with 7/8" shafts, and I believe they have had no more issues breaking shocks. Although the proper solution is not a beefier shock shaft, it was an easier fix than re-mounting the shock absorbers.
I was tracking the race online, and hated to see you dnf. If we're not racing, I always root for the underdog, but once you address these issues, an underdog you will no longer be. I hope you will consider my suggestions. Baja is going to be a long race, and I'd hate to see you suffer from the same consequences that you did last weekend. As we experienced last year, it kinda' takes the fun out of racing when you dnf.
Good luck next month!Attachments
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the stripping shop
RACER - UTVUnderground Approved
If you don't mind Lacrecia, may I make an observation about your broken shocks? It is my guess that you broke the rear shocks, and that they snapped at the lower section of the shock shaft, just before it attaches to the bottom eyelet that bolts to the a arm. I noticed in your build here that your cars' shock mounts share the same mounting orientation as the stock Maverick. If they have not yet broke, they will eventually.
Notice on the attached image, our rear shock mounting bolt, and how it is mounted in the same direction as the a arm pivot, and is mounted at an angle perpendicular to the shock pivot axis. Now, look a picture of the stock rear Maverick lower shock mount, and if you can visualize the swing of the a arm, you will see that the motion of the a arm introduces a bending load on the shock shaft due to the orientation of the lower shock mounting bolt, and the position of the upper shock mount. The top shock mounting position only complicates this problem, because it is mounted far in front of, not square to, and outside of, the upper arm pivots, instead of in between them. Because of the placement of the upper and lower shock mounts, every time the shock strokes, it is like bending a piece of metal back and forth, until its eventual failure. The Murray's experienced the same problem at the Parker race at the beginning of the season. They hit a hard g-out, and sheared off both shock eyes, in exactly the same place, and at the same time. They replaced the old 5/8" shafts with 7/8" shafts, and I believe they have had no more issues breaking shocks. Although the proper solution is not a beefier shock shaft, it was an easier fix than re-mounting the shock absorbers.
I was tracking the race online, and hated to see you dnf. If we're not racing, I always root for the underdog, but once you address these issues, an underdog you will no longer be. I hope you will consider my suggestions. Baja is going to be a long race, and I'd hate to see you suffer from the same consequences that you did last weekend. As we experienced last year, it kinda' takes the fun out of racing when you dnf.
I would cut the back half the car off and put 2015 rear section on and put the longer rear shocks on.
BiggJim
I Hate Rules - UTVUnderground Approved
Wouldn't that be changing "stock" pick up points?
badassmav
Well-Known Member
Jim is correct. Welding a clip on from a newer model year is the same thing as altering the stock pivot points, and would not be allowed in our class. The new shock location on the 2015's has room for improvement, so it wouldn't be worth the effort to use anyway. But, back to the solution to Lacrecia's problem.
It would be easier to just relocate the lower shock mount to the middle portion of the a arm, rotating the shock bolt so that it pivots half way between parallel to the upper a arm pivots, and parallel to the existing top shock bolt pivot. It looks like the top mount may need a little tweaking to accomplish reliable results. In doing so, the lower shock mount will now be closer to the upper mount, which is a good thing. Yes, her existing shock will now be too long, but that is before you finish the lower shock mount by moving it outwards towards the tire. The amount you move it outwards is decided by the stroke of her existing shock, and the target bump and droop points of the rear suspension. Droop being limited by the maximum cv joint deflection angle, which I like to keep it under 30 degrees. Bump is based on how close she is willing to allow the floor pan to get to the ground under full bottoming of the suspension. This will achieve a much more desirable motion ratio. She would also need to re-valve the shock and lighten up the spring rate a bit, due to less leverage being applied through a higher motion ratio.
Based on the pics of her build here (I attached an image), it looks like the motion ratio is around .5, which means that for every inch of vertical wheel travel, the shock strokes .5 times as much, or 1/2". Ideally, you would like to stroke the shock as close to a 1:1 ratio as possible. .65 is an average number for the basic desert racer. The motion ratio in the rear of our car is a leisurely .83. To get that, I had to run heavy 16" stroke truck shocks to accommodate 19 1/4" of total wheel travel, but the results speak for themselves.
I know that the manufacturers like for the team race cars to maintain as much of the stock appearance as possible, but when the cost of that appearance is a potential DNF........well, as they say, hindsight is 20/20.
Attachments
goMRgo
Active Member
Leucrcia I could feel your pain from the beach in Maui. Loved the internet tracking this particular race! As Reid said the Murrays had the same problem earlier this year....two shock shafts snapped in same whoop. Reid also explained our "quick fix". I'm sure you will be running up front soon as you eliminate the issues of a new race car.
Speaking of shocks and this weekend....the 1917 had a problem also. The Murray's had the 1917 parked on their "open" trailer Saturday night down by the boat ramp, near another team truck and in view from 1917 team hotel room. Regardless, someone came by that night and messed with the rebound settings of both rear shocks which can be done so easily. Once Jason and Derek took off Sunday they knew something was horribly wrong once the shocks warmed up resulting with the rear end pounding into every deep whoop. Derek had actually adjusted the rebound the night before to compensate for what was to be a much rougher course on Sunday. With each lap the rear skid plate came looser due to the pounding and eventually became a scoop that hung down 6" and kept peeling back as the race went on. They stopped in the pit to see if it could be repaired/removed but couldn't in a timely fashion. Once the race was over he, Jason and team debated what could have caused the problem. When Derek went to count the "click" settings he discovered someone had backed the screws all the way out of both rear shocks.
!! Lesson learned was we will no longer park our vehicle on an open trailer ever again. See you in Baja!
Speaking of shocks and this weekend....the 1917 had a problem also. The Murray's had the 1917 parked on their "open" trailer Saturday night down by the boat ramp, near another team truck and in view from 1917 team hotel room. Regardless, someone came by that night and messed with the rebound settings of both rear shocks which can be done so easily. Once Jason and Derek took off Sunday they knew something was horribly wrong once the shocks warmed up resulting with the rear end pounding into every deep whoop. Derek had actually adjusted the rebound the night before to compensate for what was to be a much rougher course on Sunday. With each lap the rear skid plate came looser due to the pounding and eventually became a scoop that hung down 6" and kept peeling back as the race went on. They stopped in the pit to see if it could be repaired/removed but couldn't in a timely fashion. Once the race was over he, Jason and team debated what could have caused the problem. When Derek went to count the "click" settings he discovered someone had backed the screws all the way out of both rear shocks.
!! Lesson learned was we will no longer park our vehicle on an open trailer ever again. See you in Baja!
badassmav
Well-Known Member
How lame is that? One would hope it was just a random idiot f-ing with an exposed race car, but the fact that both of the rear clickers were backed all the way out leads me to believe a racer, or a fan of Team Polaris thought they would sabotage the Murray's efforts.Leucrcia I could feel your pain from the beach in Maui. Loved the internet tracking this particular race! As Reid said the Murrays had the same problem earlier this year....two shock shafts snapped in same whoop. Reid also explained our "quick fix". I'm sure you will be running up front soon as you eliminate the issues of a new race car.
Speaking of shocks and this weekend....the 1917 had a problem also. The Murray's had the 1917 parked on their "open" trailer Saturday night down by the boat ramp, near another team truck and in view from 1917 team hotel room. Regardless, someone came by that night and messed with the rebound settings of both rear shocks which can be done so easily. Once Jason and Derek took off Sunday they knew something was horribly wrong once the shocks warmed up resulting with the rear end pounding into every deep whoop. Derek had actually adjusted the rebound the night before to compensate for what was to be a much rougher course on Sunday. With each lap the rear skid plate came looser due to the pounding and eventually became a scoop that hung down 6" and kept peeling back as the race went on. They stopped in the pit to see if it could be repaired/removed but couldn't in a timely fashion. Once the race was over he, Jason and team debated what could have caused the problem. When Derek went to count the "click" settings he discovered someone had backed the screws all the way out of both rear shocks.
BiggJim
I Hate Rules - UTVUnderground Approved
Leucrcia I could feel your pain from the beach in Maui. Loved the internet tracking this particular race! As Reid said the Murrays had the same problem earlier this year....two shock shafts snapped in same whoop. Reid also explained our "quick fix". I'm sure you will be running up front soon as you eliminate the issues of a new race car.
Speaking of shocks and this weekend....the 1917 had a problem also. The Murray's had the 1917 parked on their "open" trailer Saturday night down by the boat ramp, near another team truck and in view from 1917 team hotel room. Regardless, someone came by that night and messed with the rebound settings of both rear shocks which can be done so easily. Once Jason and Derek took off Sunday they knew something was horribly wrong once the shocks warmed up resulting with the rear end pounding into every deep whoop. Derek had actually adjusted the rebound the night before to compensate for what was to be a much rougher course on Sunday. With each lap the rear skid plate came looser due to the pounding and eventually became a scoop that hung down 6" and kept peeling back as the race went on. They stopped in the pit to see if it could be repaired/removed but couldn't in a timely fashion. Once the race was over he, Jason and team debated what could have caused the problem. When Derek went to count the "click" settings he discovered someone had backed the screws all the way out of both rear shocks.
You sure one of those guys didnt go the wrong way on the adjuster? I cant say I know all the folks in the class but the ones I do know wouldn't mess with another teams car.
facteryfmf
Looking For a Few Good Men - UTVUnderground Approv
It was probably the same guys who t-boned the J John in a truck
goMRgo
Active Member
Jim,
I totally agree with you about the teams we have raced with in this class. Unfortunately this happened and it's our fault for not having the vehicle in an enclosed trailer.
FWIW: Shocks were recently rebuilt to our Fox/team mutually agreeable settings from last shock test session. Derek knows what he's doing and keeps a log on the factory settings & any subsequent adjustments between races/rebuilds. Saturday they worked perfectly.
JoeyD23
#utvunderground
That just sucks..
rockstarcustomz
RoCkStAr CuStOm MoToRsPoRtS - UTVUnderground Appro
If you don't mind Lacrecia, may I make an observation about your broken shocks? It is my guess that you broke the rear shocks, and that they snapped at the lower section of the shock shaft, just before it attaches to the bottom eyelet that bolts to the a arm. I noticed in your build here that your cars' shock mounts share the same mounting orientation as the stock Maverick. If they have not yet broke, they will eventually.
Notice on the attached image, our rear shock mounting bolt, and how it is mounted in the same direction as the a arm pivot, and is mounted at an angle perpendicular to the shock pivot axis. Now, look a picture of the stock rear Maverick lower shock mount, and if you can visualize the swing of the a arm, you will see that the motion of the a arm introduces a bending load on the shock shaft due to the orientation of the lower shock mounting bolt, and the position of the upper shock mount. The top shock mounting position only complicates this problem, because it is mounted far in front of, not square to, and outside of, the upper arm pivots, instead of in between them. Because of the placement of the upper and lower shock mounts, every time the shock strokes, it is like bending a piece of metal back and forth, until its eventual failure. The Murray's experienced the same problem at the Parker race at the beginning of the season. They hit a hard g-out, and sheared off both shock eyes, in exactly the same place, and at the same time. They replaced the old 5/8" shafts with 7/8" shafts, and I believe they have had no more issues breaking shocks. Although the proper solution is not a beefier shock shaft, it was an easier fix than re-mounting the shock absorbers.
I was tracking the race online, and hated to see you dnf. If we're not racing, I always root for the underdog, but once you address these issues, an underdog you will no longer be. I hope you will consider my suggestions. Baja is going to be a long race, and I'd hate to see you suffer from the same consequences that you did last weekend. As we experienced last year, it kinda' takes the fun out of racing when you dnf.
Thanks for all the info and the good luck wishes! Eric has already replace the mounting points both upper and lower to move with the arc the trailing arm makes. We should be okay now. We will test at the powder puff in Barstow. Another tough and rough track! See you in Baja!
