King of the Hammers Info

Are you all forgetting that a nearly stock RZR XP finished and won last year?

And don't look at me as the guy with the car that kicks ass on everyone. I only got six miles in last year. Finished the two years before that, but with lots of issues. I'd say my track record pretty much sucks!

King of the Hammers is a rock crawling race with desert in between. If the rock sections are too easy, then it is just a desert race. :p

Anyhow, as far as I understand the course has already been picked, so complaining about it isn't going to make a difference. Especially since none of us know anything about it yet.
 
Are you all forgetting that a nearly stock RZR XP finished and won last year?

And don't look at me as the guy with the car that kicks ass on everyone. I only got six miles in last year. Finished the two years before that, but with lots of issues. I'd say my track record pretty much sucks!

King of the Hammers is a rock crawling race with desert in between. If the rock sections are too easy, then it is just a desert race. :p

Anyhow, as far as I understand the course has already been picked, so complaining about it isn't going to make a difference. Especially since none of us know anything about it yet.


True, but I can see it becoming a money game if the course gets too hard... From what I could see last year and from what I've heard, last year's course was just about right in hardness, just make it longer..
 
You all are forgetting that I have driven this years course already in my play teryx and all it has is a xmf long travel kit installed no boat sides, big motor, winch, or large tires. I'm confident that it is going to be a great race! In fact if I wasn't working so hard to make this thing go for you guys I would show you how to do it on race day!
 
You all are forgetting that I have driven this years course already in my play teryx and all it has is a xmf long travel kit installed no boat sides, big motor, winch, or large tires. I'm confident that it is going to be a great race! In fact if I wasn't working so hard to make this thing go for you guys I would show you how to do it on race day!

So, you did the course? Great. Who else? So if I won't need a winch again? Great. Will the course be marked better than last year? The road crossing last year was not marked. Everything else was pretty darn good.

The only problem I really have is the length of the course. Henderson was 79 miles of technical and desert....no rocks. Two laps.(?) Wouldn't that make the 2nd lap faster? I can't do two 79 mile laps. So, I don't sign up. And Henderson is technical and desert, no rocks involved. But to announce 70+ miles and 4 hours? Nah... I don't think that I would have signed up for this pony ride w/out a co-driver or two....maybe three. You guys take co-drivers on the Feb. 3rd? I lost two due to family issues.

Just asking.

Everone knows I love KOH, and totally enjoy the atmosphere that ULTRA 4 has created. I absolutely dig the ISA. But you know that Darryl and I do have good talking points. 45 was great..but 75...look for fewer finishers, and perhaps less interest. ISA had the right idea. Level the playing field...that will make for more interest for the average driver...who can maybe afford for the little repairs that happen after rocks. The Average Person that does not have sponsors giving them cars to build/destroy...etc..

nuff said for now.. perhaps I'm diggin a hole for myself...but this will probably be my last year anyway.

(btw, I drove a totally stock RZR S last year, w/long travel and a winch I did not use)
 
KOH in 2007 was 40-ish miles
KOH in 2008 was 50-ish
KOH in 2009 was 90-ish miles
KOH in 2010 was 140 mile loop
KOH in 2011 was 120 miles (2 laps)
KOH in 2012 is 180 miles (laps, but not the same)

This isnt a desert race (like BITD, SCORE) or a short course race, this is the ULTIMATE DESERT race! Your BITD UTV may not fair that well, just like a Trophy truck wont at KOH.

KOH racers want it hard, and even as hard as it is, people all over the country compete and try like hell to even get a start position. For most rock guys, it is the ONLY race they do all year. And for others, it is the only race they will do in their LIFE.

To make it just another desert race at Johnson Valley, is ghey.

...BTW- I have raced King of the Hammers the last three years, driving from North Carolina, and never finished it. CLosest I got was coming in about an hour after the time limit.

I will be racing my Rhino this year at KOH, and I say BRING IT!!!!

Now, if I just knew what my race number was!! :flipoff2:

Edit---There will not be lack of interest due to course length or difficulty. Builders will just start stepping up.....just like Ultra 4 did. I just got home from the Dirt Riot race in Tucson. 3 hour lap race, 4 mile laps , gnarly ass Man Made rockcrouse (compeition rock crawlers can relate) they had to traverse every lap (winner did 21 laps...thats 21 times across the man made WE ROCK course). I sat in the pits, and only one car came in....and that was because he flopped in the rocks and lost some trans fluid. 3 years ago, 4400 cars would of been pitting every other lap and most would DNF. No DNF's yesterday. The Rock Donkeys evolved, and I am sure the UTV's will to. I havent seen the entry list, but I know you guys better beware. A LOT of 4400 guys are racing their UTV's at KOH. They bring rock experience and desert racing. They are just new to the UTV scene. My money is on a Rock crawler in a RZR will take the win this year.

And anyone who wants to show up at KOH with out a winch is dead money....

See everyone on the lakebed,

Rob
 
KOH in 2007 was 40-ish miles
KOH in 2008 was 50-ish
KOH in 2009 was 90-ish miles
KOH in 2010 was 140 mile loop
KOH in 2011 was 120 miles (2 laps)
KOH in 2012 is 180 miles (laps, but not the same)

This isnt a desert race (like BITD, SCORE) or a short course race, this is the ULTIMATE DESERT race! Your BITD UTV may not fair that well, just like a Trophy truck wont at KOH.

KOH racers want it hard, and even as hard as it is, people all over the country compete and try like hell to even get a start position. For most rock guys, it is the ONLY race they do all year. And for others, it is the only race they will do in their LIFE.

To make it just another desert race at Johnson Valley, is ghey.

...BTW- I have raced King of the Hammers the last three years, driving from North Carolina, and never finished it. CLosest I got was coming in about an hour after the time limit.

I will be racing my Rhino this year at KOH, and I say BRING IT!!!!

Now, if I just knew what my race number was!! :flipoff2:

Edit---There will not be lack of interest due to course length or difficulty. Builders will just start stepping up.....just like Ultra 4 did. I just got home from the Dirt Riot race in Tucson. 3 hour lap race, 4 mile laps , gnarly ass Man Made rockcrouse (compeition rock crawlers can relate) they had to traverse every lap (winner did 21 laps...thats 21 times across the man made WE ROCK course). I sat in the pits, and only one car came in....and that was because he flopped in the rocks and lost some trans fluid. 3 years ago, 4400 cars would of been pitting every other lap and most would DNF. No DNF's yesterday. The Rock Donkeys evolved, and I am sure the UTV's will to. I havent seen the entry list, but I know you guys better beware. A LOT of 4400 guys are racing their UTV's at KOH. They bring rock experience and desert racing. They are just new to the UTV scene. My money is a Rock crawler in a RZR will take the win this year.


See everyone on the lakebed,

Rob

Rob, you are flawed in your thinking that builders will step up as they did for the main event. The sponsors and money isn't enough for them to mess with.

I'm friends with Randy Rodd (Jimmy's 4X4) and he repeatedly turns away anything to do with UTVs (though he is interested in going thru mine to see what he needs to do to build his son one). Loren Healy (2010 KOH Winner) lives just up the street from me, he owns a RZR-XP, but considers it strictly a play toy..

I spend quite a bit of time around the 4400 car guys, in fact I have given serious thought to building one, but the UTV class is a second rate citizenship at KOH and won't bring the big money or builders. Why should it, for what it costs to build a good UTV, you are more than 1/2 way to having a great 4400 car built by Randy (he just sold a used one he built for less than I have in my Prowler).

UTVs are great fun vehicles and great for entry level into racing, but they will never have the stamina or durability to run repeatedly with the big 4400 cars without spending a fortune. That is all we are saying is don't turn this into a $$$$ game. Because if I have to spend the big $$$ it sure the hell won't be in a UTV class race...

Now many of you have seen pics of my car, I'm not worried one bit about whether it's competitive. I'm still ironing out CVs pulling apart, but we have that figured out, power-wise, it was on a short course and held it's own with 4400 cars and a trophy truck. But I'm just saying, lets not turn it into a "I can out spend you" situation, which if it gets too tough it will be. As it stands from last year, that was pretty good, and making it longer won't be any worse I feel. But lets just keep it reasonable so that the average guy or girl has a chance...

As for WE Rock, I'm familar with their courses, I know Big Rich (I used to be a main sponsor for WE Rock's nationals), his Dirt Riot courses are tough, but no where that level of the Hammers...Last year, only 6 of 16 UTVs finished the KOH UTV Race...
 
The way I see it is, we're lucky to have this race to begin with. No complaints here. With that said, I would like to know which UTV racers said that it should be a harder race course? Wasnt me, not the HCR camp, Guthries car barely finished, and I know Jaggeds car took a beating. I think the 6 us us that finished last year were spent.

I'm not scared! We're going to win it this year! :D
 
The way I see it is, we're lucky to have this race to begin with. No complaints here. With that said, I would like to know which UTV racers said that it should be a harder race course? Wasnt me, not the HCR camp, Guthries car barely finished, and I know Jaggeds car took a beating. I think the 6 us us that finished last year were spent.

Exactly Brian... good luck man, see you on the lakebed...
 
Rob, you are flawed in your thinking that builders will step up as they did for the main event. The sponsors and money isn't enough for them to mess with.

I'm friends with Randy Rodd (Jimmy's 4X4) and he repeatedly turns away anything to do with UTVs (though he is interested in going thru mine to see what he needs to do to build his son one). Loren Healy (2010 KOH Winner) lives just up the street from me, he owns a RZR-XP, but considers it strictly a play toy..

I spend quite a bit of time around the 4400 car guys, in fact I have given serious thought to building one, but the UTV class is a second rate citizenship at KOH and won't bring the big money or builders. Why should it, for what it costs to build a good UTV, you are more than 1/2 way to having a great 4400 car built by Randy (he just sold a used one he built for less than I have in my Prowler).

UTVs are great fun vehicles and great for entry level into racing, but they will never have the stamina or durability to run repeatedly with the big 4400 cars without spending a fortune. That is all we are saying is don't turn this into a $$$$ game. Because if I have to spend the big $$$ it sure the hell won't be in a UTV class race...

Now many of you have seen pics of my car, I'm not worried one bit about whether it's competitive. I'm still ironing out CVs pulling apart, but we have that figured out, power-wise, it was on a short course and held it's own with 4400 cars and a trophy truck. But I'm just saying, lets not turn it into a "I can out spend you" situation, which if it gets too tough it will be. As it stands from last year, that was pretty good, and making it longer won't be any worse I feel. But lets just keep it reasonable so that the average guy or girl has a chance...

As for WE Rock, I'm familar with their courses, I know Big Rich (I used to be a main sponsor for WE Rock's nationals), his Dirt Riot courses are tough, but no where that level of the Hammers...Last year, only 6 of 16 UTVs finished the KOH UTV Race...



Daryl,

I believe your thinking is flawed....and here is why.

First off...Loren Healy is an ex-King who is building a Bad Ass IF$ car. He is an Ultra4 racer, so I am sure he considers it a play toy and will always do so. He is a House Hold name in the Rockcrawling world.

Randy Rodd has proven himself as a builder who can build 4400 cars that can not only last, but can win. His place is way to small to focus on anything but rockcralwers, and he would be a fool to even consider it at this moment.

Its one thing dropping 25-30k on a race car, it is THAT SECOND half that limits tons of people! :eek: Not only that, maintaining that car that sold for less than your UTV is another story.

The UTV market is blowing up....and will continue to. 2/3 of the KOH field of 4400 cars are not contenders.....I know, because I was among that group for long time. Eventually, those guys will all cross over to UTV's....but for now, they are living the dream at the Baddest A$$ race on the planet, especially if you are a rock guy.

I can not believe how fun these things are to race and how cheap they are. And all of those guys will too when they get sick of dropping tens-of thousands. I can just about by 4 brand new Bighorns for what one BFG KRT-B costs!! 300m axle shafts-cheaper, lockers-none, re-gear differtials-cant, etc, etc, etc. Everything about these is cheaper, and the fun level is there as well. Easy to prep and maintain as well. All of this is very inviting to a bunch of KOH guys.

I agree, we are the outcasts out there (King of the Outcasts!!), but the numbers have increased each year, and eventually you will have to be quailifed to enter. I am not saying make it the same difficulty and length as the main event, but dont make it easier either.

For comparison, I raced RCQ in 2009 and 11 finished out of 32, 2010, 16 out of 30 finished and the course was harder. From the begining of Ultra4 the finish rate has increased, and with the UTV's the same thing will happen.

Wide Open Design (Ultra4 racer and builder) has started to build UTV, and more and more will too.

My lap times at Dirt Riot in my wheezy 693 was only about 30 senocds off of the 4400 cars when they qualified (no rocks, just 4 miles)...the course was tight, so that helped!

King of the Hammers has turned into how much I can spend versus you.....but what makes it bad ass, is a low-budget race car can still pull a good finsh.

Its the rocks man, the rocks. They change everything.

Rob
 
The way I see it is, we're lucky to have this race to begin with. No complaints here. With that said, I would like to know which UTV racers said that it should be a harder race course? Wasnt me, not the HCR camp, Guthries car barely finished, and I know Jaggeds car took a beating. I think the 6 us us that finished last year were spent.

I'm not scared! We're going to win it this year! :D


Brian,

Not sure if this was directed at me or not, as I havent raced it, all I am saying is dont make it easy. I have no idea how hard it was or is or whatever.

But, as a rockcralwer, you and I may have WAY different thoughts on what hard is. I have rockcrawled for 15 years, competed sice 2007, and built a few buggies. Bouncing around in the seat for 12 hours, rolling, breaking, etc. is something we plan vacations around!!

If you have never really rockcrawled, thats one thing....

Now, if you have been rockcrawling a lot, and you say its hard, and you were spent, then that is something else!!!!:eek:

Either way, I am looking forward to it. And we really are fortunate to be able to race that week!

Rob
 
Daryl,

I believe your thinking is flawed....and here is why.

First off...Loren Healy is an ex-King who is building a Bad Ass IF$ car. He is an Ultra4 racer, so I am sure he considers it a play toy and will always do so. He is a House Hold name in the Rockcrawling world.

Randy Rodd has proven himself as a builder who can build 4400 cars that can not only last, but can win. His place is way to small to focus on anything but rockcralwers, and he would be a fool to even consider it at this moment.

Its one thing dropping 25-30k on a race car, it is THAT SECOND half that limits tons of people! :eek: Not only that, maintaining that car that sold for less than your UTV is another story.

The UTV market is blowing up....and will continue to. 2/3 of the KOH field of 4400 cars are not contenders.....I know, because I was among that group for long time. Eventually, those guys will all cross over to UTV's....but for now, they are living the dream at the Baddest A$$ race on the planet, especially if you are a rock guy.

I can not believe how fun these things are to race and how cheap they are. And all of those guys will too when they get sick of dropping tens-of thousands. I can just about by 4 brand new Bighorns for what one BFG KRT-B costs!! 300m axle shafts-cheaper, lockers-none, re-gear differtials-cant, etc, etc, etc. Everything about these is cheaper, and the fun level is there as well. Easy to prep and maintain as well. All of this is very inviting to a bunch of KOH guys.

I agree, we are the outcasts out there (King of the Outcasts!!), but the numbers have increased each year, and eventually you will have to be quailifed to enter. I am not saying make it the same difficulty and length as the main event, but dont make it easier either.

For comparison, I raced RCQ in 2009 and 11 finished out of 32, 2010, 16 out of 30 finished and the course was harder. From the begining of Ultra4 the finish rate has increased, and with the UTV's the same thing will happen.

Wide Open Design (Ultra4 racer and builder) has started to build UTV, and more and more will too.

My lap times at Dirt Riot in my wheezy 693 was only about 30 senocds off of the 4400 cars when they qualified (no rocks, just 4 miles)...the course was tight, so that helped!

King of the Hammers has turned into how much I can spend versus you.....but what makes it bad ass, is a low-budget race car can still pull a good finsh.

Its the rocks man, the rocks. They change everything.

Rob

Well, guess we'll just agree to disagree on some things. I still say that the money isn't there or sponsors to qualify building high dollar cars that will be required eventually to be competitive in KOH UTV... yeah, the purse is $5000, but what do the vendors give in contingency, some do, but still not enough. Just to race KOH for me is costing me $1500 for entry, tracker, fuel to get out and back and supplies while there. That's pretty cheap for what it could be, but only the 1st place guy, maybe the 2nd place too, will reach breakeven. So for the other 38 or 39 out of 40 racers, it's a hobby... so if it's going to be a hobby, keep it reasonable and fun.

Like I said, a longer version of last year's course will probably be fun and doable.. but lets not turn it into a mass carnage out there...yet. Once the big money and builders do come, if they do, then lets make it tougher.. (but I notice that Dave is starting another race at KOH called Every Man's Challenge for stocker Jeeps, is that what's going to happen to UTVs if is does get harder)...

Rob, are you going to run the Mountain Series of Dirt Riot? I will be this year, looking forward to it, Big has been after me since he started the series to do it.. We'll see you on the lakebed :D
 
Brian,

Not sure if this was directed at me or not, as I havent raced it, all I am saying is dont make it easy. I have no idea how hard it was or is or whatever.

But, as a rockcralwer, you and I may have WAY different thoughts on what hard is. I have rockcrawled for 15 years, competed sice 2007, and built a few buggies. Bouncing around in the seat for 12 hours, rolling, breaking, etc. is something we plan vacations around!!

If you have never really rockcrawled, thats one thing....

Now, if you have been rockcrawling a lot, and you say its hard, and you were spent, then that is something else!!!!:eek:

Either way, I am looking forward to it. And we really are fortunate to be able to race that week!

Rob

I don't think anyone is saying make it easier, just don't make it a bunch harder than last year where it results in major breakages...
When Joanne started her discussion on this, she was just worried since Dave Cole was talking about how hard it is. I don't blame her and see her point very clearly, not everyone has mega bucks to always be fixing or modifying their cars..
 
EDIT---I read your reply above. I agree.

lol... i hear ya. I am not saying make it harder, just not "easy!"

As far as Dirt Riot, not really sure, I need to look at the Mountain Series races. It becomes a Diesel Fuel and time issue for me!!

El Paso is really between all the races!!


See ya in a couple weeks bro!!

Rob
 
The way I see it is, we're lucky to have this race to begin with. No complaints here. With that said, I would like to know which UTV racers said that it should be a harder race course? Wasnt me, not the HCR camp, Guthries car barely finished, and I know Jaggeds car took a beating. I think the 6 us us that finished last year were spent.

I'm not scared! We're going to win it this year! :D
Rock ON Brian! You know It. Heck i was spent after 28 miles, and Britt took a beating.. Jim was, and still is a trooper to hang with me. This year I really wasn't expecting an increase in milage.

When the Big Dogs come to play, I hope that they are happy to whopp me like a tired horse.. The ol'woman took the time to be drive sano last year. 'just sayin' ;)
 
When I think of King Of The Hammers I think of a tough and brutal race where many will enter and only a few will survive. Attrition is part of the challenge. I commend them for making it even harder than it was last year, just like they try to make Baja a little more challenging each and every year. It forces competitors to build stronger cars and develop better driving discipline and strategy. You can cruise the course, pick safe lines and make it through the race with minimal to no damage BUT remember this is a race, and those who hang it out, take chances, and push the limits are usually the ones who are rewarded with the W. They are also those who are taken out by unforeseen failures and damages.

While I hear the cry of the racers who are racing on smaller budgets, have no sponsors, and want a course that isn't any more challenging than the year prior I must say that you would be going against what the spirit of KOH truly is. Hammers is supposed to break your stuff! Its supposed to test your machine, your prep, and your skills. Inevitably it will test your wallet as well... Just part of the game for events like Hammers, Baja, and now Dakar!
 
When I think of King Of The Hammers I think of a tough and brutal race where many will enter and only a few will survive. Attrition is part of the challenge. I commend them for making it even harder than it was last year, just like they try to make Baja a little more challenging each and every year. It forces competitors to build stronger cars and develop better driving discipline and strategy. You can cruise the course, pick safe lines and make it through the race with minimal to no damage BUT remember this is a race, and those who hang it out, take chances, and push the limits are usually the ones who are rewarded with the W. They are also those who are taken out by unforeseen failures and damages.

While I hear the cry of the racers who are racing on smaller budgets, have no sponsors, and want a course that isn't any more challenging than the year prior I must say that you would be going against what the spirit of KOH truly is. Hammers is supposed to break your stuff! Its supposed to test your machine, your prep, and your skills. Inevitably it will test your wallet as well... Just part of the game for events like Hammers, Baja, and now Dakar!

Joey Joey Joey, spoken truly like someone that doesn't buy their own shit...LOL
Hard is good, but stupid isn't... do you want Jagged X, Casey Currie and Jon Crowley being the only ones racing in this in another year or two...
I commend Mike and Dave for building a good course, but the idea shouldn't be to break people... if that is so, then it becomes a rich man's only type sport...and if I'm going to get into a money spending game, I sure the hell am not spending it on a UTV... I'll buy a Jimmy's 4X4 car and race the real race then...where at least I can get big sponsors and real contingency monies...
 
I don't race because I can't afford it. Plain and simple, and if I did want to race I wouldn't ask that a promoter takes my situation as an individual and try to adapt their race around me. However, I don't knock those who do ask or voice their concerns and opinions. I am all for that!

I approach racing as a fan #1. When a promotor or organizer asks me for my opinion on their event I give them an answer based upon what I think people would like to watch and see. I also consider the racers obviously and try to give the promotors the best information I can based upon what I gather here on the site and in personal conversations with those who compete. While you as competitors have a different view, us as fans don't always take your budgets and sponsors into consideration. I just want to see something cool and fun. I want to shoot a race thats exciting, has challenges, and gives me the best opportunity to tell a unique story. I get tired of redundancy, like we see in short course. Same race each and every time. While its fun for the competitors us as fans get complacent and then bored. So when I say that I want to see things get harder what I mean is I want to see the race progress. King Of The Hammers is challenging, if it wasn't it would be Queen Of The Screwdrivers. You don't want to risk breaking or you can't afford to fix something that could break than you (not you personally, just you in general) should probably take my approach and just hang out on the sidelines. Fact is, despite only a handfull finishing last years race, this year is commanding the most entries of any UTV race held thus far on the lakebed.

I don't know everything about racing and sponsorships but I know enough to know that just cause you buy a more expensive vehicle doesn't mean your getting any sponsors. You can buy a Trophy Truck and it doesn't guarantee you shit! Thats a FACT!

And for the record, while I may get free parts, demo units, and a lot things for no cash out of pocket, trust me when I say... NOTHING IS FREE.
 
Look at LOORS UTV Racing... it's been dropped at the national level. It was too expensive to race for most and if people are going to spend that kind of money, then why not drive a pro 2 truck... Hmmm, I seem to recall a few UTV racers in fact are doing that.

Make it too expensive and utv racing goes away. I love UTV racing, I think it is a great entry level sport, but if you try to make it the main event, most racers will put their money in something that has higher hp and longer travel.

Joey, I still say, if you make it too expensive for the average racer, it'll go away. UTV's just aren't that fun to watch (unless it's Corry in her SR1) compared to pro 2 trucks or trophy trucks. And at KOH, UTV's may be able to run most of the Hammer trails, but they still aren't Ultra 4/4400 cars.. You know you can buy a used Jimmy's car for $45000 to $75000. Why would someone want to spend that price on a UTV when they can buy the big car and get even more adrenaline rush. You yourself the other day mentioned going for a ride in high hp desert car and said you were hooked...

Keep it reasonable, don't make it easy, don't make it another desert race, but don't design it so that only a small percentage of high dollar cars will make it through... it just doesn't have the attraction that Ultra 4's have to keep it popular...
 
No one is saying to increase the cost. Just increase the challenge. Reality is, you can build a 5 mile course and if you try to drive it too hard you are going to break. Just cause the course is longer or more challenging has nothign to do with cost of repair really. You have to control yourself. Some people are going to show up with better equipment and some people are going to drive the wheels off their car and risk everything to win. Its the way it is. You can show up with your car and just because the course is longer or more challenging doesn't mean you are going to tear it apart any more than the course the year prior. Its all in how you drive and prep your car that determines how much cost is involved in repairs! If you are there to just have a Sunday drive and not hurt anything then chances are you are not going to win anyway cause guys like Mitch Guthrie and JX are going to go for it! And they do it pretty much in stock equipment, nothing like you have invested in your UTV!?

KOH is nothing like LOORRS. LOORRS entry fees were through the roof #1 and you had 16 rounds of racing at 8 different events. You had to spend an extra grand a tleast to feed your crew and your selves for the weekends, get them in the pits which costs for each person, and make sure they had a place to stay not to mention fuel for an entire season to travel to AZ, CA, and Utah. If LOORRS was 1 race a year there would be Soboba like turnouts everytime! King Of The Hammers is 1 RACE A YEAR! What fun is it if its just a little rock race with no challenge????

I see where you are coming from Darryl. But KOH could be more compared to Soboba. The Soboba course is a rough 6.2 mile course. All the elements involved MINUS rock crawling. The race is 2 hours long. You can either drive the fricken wheels off it from the green flag on and risk destroying your car, or you can go out, set a pace, and drive smart and let others break. A few guys go for it such as RJ and Beau and they are rewarded. But both of their cars were FINE and Beau was in a bone stock RZR-4 XP900. RJ a full blown WORCS race car. There were 33 cars lined up to take it on and probably more would have showed if it didn't show rain in the forecast. Out of the 33 cars that showed I am going to guess that maybe 15 finished. Many try to win the race in the first 30 minutes and they pay the price. Its a race of attrition and making sure you make your equipment last. If you want to drive it hard then you can't be mad when you have repair costs. I would also bet that 95% of the field has NO sponsors!! Yet its still and always will be one of the biggest races of the year as well as one of the most exciting UTV related events all year!

What I am saying is you need to make UTV's as exciting to watch as the big race otherwise you will always be a side show for amateurs. Some people are content with that? I would love to see the UTV race turn into a race that ends up on TV because of how cool, interesting, and challenging it really is! I think KOH's wants that as well. They want to create a race that continues to bring out the best of the best as well as those who want to challenge the best and their machines at one of the larges UTV events in the world.

Comparing LOORRS and KOH is comparing apples to oranges. You can't compare a 16 round race SERIES to a 1 race a year EVENT! KOH's is primed to be one of the coolest UTV events in the world but if you just try to keep it a side show then why would anyone waste time and why would Pit Bull or anyone else want to put cash up for it?
 
No one is saying to increase the cost. Just increase the challenge. Reality is, you can build a 5 mile course and if you try to drive it too hard you are going to break. Just cause the course is longer or more challenging has nothign to do with cost of repair really. You have to control yourself. Some people are going to show up with better equipment and some people are going to drive the wheels off their car and risk everything to win. Its the way it is. You can show up with your car and just because the course is longer or more challenging doesn't mean you are going to tear it apart any more than the course the year prior. Its all in how you drive and prep your car that determines how much cost is involved in repairs! If you are there to just have a Sunday drive and not hurt anything then chances are you are not going to win anyway cause guys like Mitch Guthrie and JX are going to go for it! And they do it pretty much in stock equipment, nothing like you have invested in your UTV!?

KOH is nothing like LOORRS. LOORRS entry fees were through the roof #1 and you had 16 rounds of racing at 8 different events. You had to spend an extra grand a tleast to feed your crew and your selves for the weekends, get them in the pits which costs for each person, and make sure they had a place to stay not to mention fuel for an entire season to travel to AZ, CA, and Utah. If LOORRS was 1 race a year there would be Soboba like turnouts everytime! King Of The Hammers is 1 RACE A YEAR! What fun is it if its just a little rock race with no challenge????

I see where you are coming from Darryl. But KOH could be more compared to Soboba. The Soboba course is a rough 6.2 mile course. All the elements involved MINUS rock crawling. The race is 2 hours long. You can either drive the fricken wheels off it from the green flag on and risk destroying your car, or you can go out, set a pace, and drive smart and let others break. A few guys go for it such as RJ and Beau and they are rewarded. But both of their cars were FINE and Beau was in a bone stock RZR-4 XP900. RJ a full blown WORCS race car. There were 33 cars lined up to take it on and probably more would have showed if it didn't show rain in the forecast. Out of the 33 cars that showed I am going to guess that maybe 15 finished. Many try to win the race in the first 30 minutes and they pay the price. Its a race of attrition and making sure you make your equipment last. If you want to drive it hard then you can't be mad when you have repair costs. I would also bet that 95% of the field has NO sponsors!! Yet its still and always will be one of the biggest races of the year as well as one of the most exciting UTV related events all year!

What I am saying is you need to make UTV's as exciting to watch as the big race otherwise you will always be a side show for amateurs. Some people are content with that? I would love to see the UTV race turn into a race that ends up on TV because of how cool, interesting, and challenging it really is! I think KOH's wants that as well. They want to create a race that continues to bring out the best of the best as well as those who want to challenge the best and their machines at one of the larges UTV events in the world.

Comparing LOORRS and KOH is comparing apples to oranges. You can't compare a 16 round race SERIES to a 1 race a year EVENT! KOH's is primed to be one of the coolest UTV events in the world but if you just try to keep it a side show then why would anyone waste time and why would Pit Bull or anyone else want to put cash up for it?

Very well said JoeyD. Now with the cheese & towels out of the way lets get it on!:D
 

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