I HATE KNOCKOFF LIGHTING COMPANIES!

[Sandman365]

Much respect to Rigid and BD for their quality and if theres patent infringement going on thats BS.

However, with support from all the racers and som rec. riders, is Rigids business hurting or are they healthy and groing? I think theres a big enough high end market for them to withstand the cheap Chinese crap market segment. Otherwise, they would have a mid lever bar series, but they want the high end for dirt cred w racers and high prices. Theres room for both. My .02

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[JoeyD23]

I'm curious what your stances on pharmaceutical grade prescriptions? We have laws in place in the United States that after a certain period of time allows another company to literally steal The technology that somebody else spent the time and money researching designing advertising and working to place inside of a market and sell for pennies on the dollar. It's funny I've never heard anyone at the pharmaceutical line complaining about paying less for prescription because they stole the technology from another company.

Another thing to think about China does not use or respect our patent laws. I was talking recently with the CEO of a company I deal with at work and they have currently 14 open lawsuits about patent issues with China and they say that they have no plans of winning a single case.

I mean yeah I get it they're advertising their stuff is equal or better and that's just not the case. But it's becoming pretty clear that this is not a cut and dry case of you get what you pay for.

I mean I love Rigid as a company I love that they give back to the off-road community. and given the opportunity in my life I'm ever in the financial state where I can support them back I will happily do so. But bottom line is at the end of the day people like me are not a target customer for rigid. And they make that very clear with their pricing. We have on one end of the spectrum cheap Chinese lighting on the other end of the spectrum superhigh and professional quality lighting and until some current or new companies come in and fill some of the void we are going to be left with little option or in my case one option a Chinese lightbar or no lightbar

You said it yourself.. THERE ARE LAWS IN PLACE... Well that applies to pharmaceuticals. That doesn't apply to Lighting and a host of other manufactured goods. There is no law stating its ok to rip off a company like Baja Designs after they have developed a product and sold it for X amount of years... Never will be a law either.

STEALING is WRONG no matter who benefits from it. I don't care about the law abiding companies making affordable products the legit way. My OP was about the CROOKS who STEAL patented products, copy them, then sell them. Those companies should not be supported.

Then again, people often buy strictly off of price and not quality. I get it that its expensive to buy a rigid bar but its expensive compared to WHAT? The light bar that is being sold with no packaging, no QC, no marketing, no customer support, no US jobs, no technical training, no R&D?? Of course they are cheaper, because they are letting the others do all the work.

My point is not to guilt anyone or to flame anyone. Its simply to point out an issue in the lighting industry. An issue that does hurt companies like Baja Designs and Rigid.

 

[JoeyD23]

to add -

I know China doesn't respect US patents, nor do they legally have too. However, they do have to respect international patents which I believe most lighting companies have. In the end, a patent is only as strong as your will to defend it. Patent lawsuits cost a lot of money. The crooks know it too. They usually just fold one company and then open another. Thats why I hope companies like Rigid start going after the companies here in the US selling the stolen and copied goods.

 

[steino411]

"Back in the day..." I still run those old skool kragen HID's and love em. Guess you don't miss what you don't have. Interesting thread though. I do want a bar some day, and pricing will be a factor. There has to be a balance of price and quality, and each person has his own needs and price point.

 

[Rusty5150]

The Chinese government will do something if you file for a Chinese patent. We stopped containers of lights in Long Beach for patent infringement. Like Joey said, it cost $200k to prevent a $100k of product coming in. The next week they are a new company. It will never end. Only the consumer can stop it.


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[Sandman365]

Is Totron just this side of the line of the e-bay no-name-brand Chinese junk or do you clump them in with the cheaters? Just curious.

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[Sandman365]

Also Rusty, as a lighting guy, whats your take on the Sirius lights? As an average consumer, they look comparable to the Rigids, but half the price. (Spec sheet earlier in thread) an honest analysis would be welcome regarding quality of components used without brand loyalty. As a guy looking for some lights id like to hear a quantitative analysis if you have checked them out. Think others would appreciate the info from someone who understands the internals. Thanks in advance.

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[Rusty5150]

I have not looked at them or heard of them. Specs don't mean anything. Testing is the only way. I will admit most of the LED companies don't do a good job telling us why they are better. They need reports to support it.


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[66cummins]

Good thread, it has to be frustrating for any company to work their tail off to build a nice product only to have someone copy it and then sell for dirt cheap.

 

[crazywatson]

It all comes down to money. If someone thinks they can get a better deal somewhere else then they will. Almost no one will buy something to be loyal. It suck but $ trumps everything. The guys paying money for top notch stuff buy it because they want the best and cost is not the issue. I like buying quality.

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[crazywatson]

You just have to taylor your company to sell in the market you belong in. In my opinion quality lights are not in the same market as trotron.

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[Nezzy]

Also Rusty, as a lighting guy, whats your take on the Sirius lights? As an average consumer, they look comparable to the Rigids, but half the price. (Spec sheet earlier in thread) an honest analysis would be welcome regarding quality of components used without brand loyalty. As a guy looking for some lights id like to hear a quantitative analysis if you have checked them out. Think others would appreciate the info from someone who understands the internals. Thanks in advance.

sent from the top of China Wall

The Sirius lights I'm pretty sure are just re-branded Aurora lights. Aurora makes a high quality light bar and their new optics do not infringe on any patents. The brackets that MotoAlliance are selling do infringe on Axia's patents so they should tread lightly. Aurora makes their own mother boards and optics. They use Orsram bulbs and go through high quality testing before being sent out.

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[Sandman365]

Thanks for the info. Still got some research to do but leaning towards Sirius. $500 is on the high end of my lightbar budget but I think ill be glad I spent the few hundred more doe n the line.

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[crazywatson]

Since lighting technology advances pretty fast do lighting companies get a new patient every time they make a change?

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[Nezzy]

Since lighting technology advances pretty fast do lighting companies get a new patient every time they make a change?

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No. Usually patents cover specific parts of the bar and are rarely invented by the light bar co. Usually it's someone else's technology and the light bar co. chooses to integrate it into their product.

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[El Mamito USMC]

the most important thing that you need to know is where and from what company you buy bars from. I do sell light bars also and I never had an issue with Totron(or getting a warranty for any part) or Auroras, even other few bar brands.

now as everyone knows Chinese guys will say anything to get their business here .. so its pretty much a trial and error until you find a brand that works good and performs decently. that's why I only stick with 3-4 brands only..

and as long as the US seller talks truthfully to his buyer, theres nothing wrong with that..

to bad you had a badddd experience with china bars, but don't hate all of them..

 

[desertwheeler]

Thanks for the info. Still got some research to do but leaning towards Sirius. $500 is on the high end of my lightbar budget but I think ill be glad I spent the few hundred more doe n the line.

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If you want some night pics of a 30" Sirius bar let me know I'm pretty happy with mine.

 

[Sandman365]

Sweet. Post it up or PM. 30" with spot and spread? Looks like quality components.

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[az_amsoil]

FYI...Osram was the first to grow a InGaN (Indium Gallium Nitride) layer on a 6" silicon wafer...Why is this IMPORTANT?!?! White and blue LEDs has historically been manufactured with GaN (Gallium Nitride) or InGaN on 2" sapphire wafers (very expensive). This new process will reduce the cost of the LED by upwards of 85%.

Other things not discussed are type of MCPCB (Metal Core Printed Circuit Board), used regulated junction temperatures on the LED module, type of voltage regulator, Vf (forward or "turn on" voltage) in an LED is critical, as temperature rises, the Vf drops (not good!), so how you manage heat is super important.

One other thing, I can guarantee, that there is not a light bar company that doesn't purchase their LED modules from (non InGaN on silicon) from China. However, with this Osram breakthrough, it could give existing 6" FABs (outside of China) some wafer starts to produce them at comparable cost.

20 years in semiconductor industry will open you eyes to the global market, China isn't all bad, but the quality from one place to the next is vast!

 

[NIKAL]

Joey & Rusty, Your not going go want to hear this or probably admit this but, Here is where the real fault lies. The Chinesse knock offs is Rigid, Vision & BD's own fault. We have known for longer then these companies have been around, China steels design & concept. Yet these light companies chose to give these manufactures their designs to manufacture for them. Anyone who is in manufacturing knows once you hand over you designs they are going to be duplicated and sold out the back door. Its a double edge sword. You want to lower manufacturing cost, so you look to outsource, which takes you to China.

Many companies who are concern or have a very particular product in a nitch market dont let China do to much or at lease not one company. Or they only allow them to make specific parts without knowing the final product design. Then they manufacture key parts inhouse or with a US manufacture that has to live by pattens or non disclorures and then assembles only at they own facility.

How do I know some of this? I work for a electronic chip & cap manufacture. We build chips and caps for hundreds of different companies around the world. The big new technology is Ultra Caps, which we have a huge presents in.