Common Ground by Jeff Knoll (PLEASE READ)

[Jeff Knoll]

Done. Let's see if I get a response from Mr. cook.

"Dear Mr. Cook,

I know you are a very busy man and appreciate any time you can make to discuss the current situation concerning the Johnson Valley Annex. I'm sure you are well aware of the current situation, so I won't belabor this correspondence with details. I would like to solicit you for 30 minutes of your time at your earliest convenience to hear this constituents input concerning the looming closure of 2/3 of the largest open off road recreation area in the United States. I will accommodate your schedule, so please feel free to pencil me in where appropriate. I live in Hesperia (92345) so I would prefer something close to my area or within ~40mi.

Thank you for your time.

Best regards,

Dan Kiewicz jr"

Awesome effort.

Paul Cook has been very helpful regarding this base expansion, and I am sure he will love to hear from you as a constituent. Don't give up, he has some pretty good staff people that will be glad to help you get an appointment.

This is a great lead in. Last year a bunch of us shared the responses we received and we had a lot of fun collecting appointments. I was able to meet a handful of Legislators or staff last year.

Congressman Issa
Congressman McKeon
Congressman Royce
Congressman Baca
Senator Feinstein
Congresswoman Bono Mac
Congressman McCarthy

I failed On Congressman Calvert, and Senator Boxer.

This year I get to start all over since I now live in Nevada.
Congressman Mark E Amodei
and Senator Dean Heller
I don't think I will get a meeting with Harry Reid, but I will try.

You can use this tool if you don't know your Legislator.
http://www.house.gov/

Tool is in the right hand top corner.

 

[Ali Baba]

OHV Lobby days are coming up quick, please participate. Its a great way to teach your kids a civic lesson, and show them how our government is supposed to work.

http://www.orba.biz/2nd-annual-ohv-lobby-days-to-be-held-during-the-month-of-april/

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but what is the status on four seat conversions? Is there anything we can do? Thanks!

 

[Rusty5150]

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but what is the status on four seat conversions? Is there anything we can do? Thanks!

I tried to gather data, photos to create a collage to share with people. I hit all the forums I posted my email everywhere. About 6 people sent me photos. I am sorry but a voice of 6 does not do much. It seems like people are not concerned with it or they just don't care.

 

[Jeff Knoll]

I tried to gather data, photos to create a collage to share with people. I hit all the forums I posted my email everywhere. About 6 people sent me photos. I am sorry but a voice of 6 does not do much. It seems like people are not concerned with it or they just don't care.

Exactly what Rusty said. The ISA Board drafted legislative language that would offer a common sense solution, but with no money, no members, and no interest it sits with no voice. (BTW we spent the better part of a weekend to create that language basically for nothing. ever try to write a law?)

There are a number of groups attempting to push legislation, but from what I have seen they will not go far with it.

I can't even use my association with ORBA on this item, as our board has adopted a wait and see approach since our membership is divided on the subject. I will be ready with our draft when and if they wish to act.

Sorry to say....Until SXS owners can get motivated to organize, and not expect a handful of people to do it for them, you might consider buying a 4 seater, and helmets.

This thread is yet another example of our communities lack of interest. 3000 members, and we have one person who has actually taken a moment of his time to ask for a meeting with his legislator.

Not a great hyjack subject, and I know your just curious, so its not directed at you individually, but the most frustrating thing about doing this kind of work is apathy. I use the word, work loosly as that implies compensation and I don't currently receive any for advocacy efforts.

 

[VBosch02]

Exactly what Rusty said. The ISA Board drafted legislative language that would offer a common sense solution, but with no money, no members, and no interest it sits with no voice. (BTW we spent the better part of a weekend to create that language basically for nothing. ever try to write a law?)

There are a number of groups attempting to push legislation, but from what I have seen they will not go far with it.

I can't even use my association with ORBA on this item, as our board has adopted a wait and see approach since our membership is divided on the subject. I will be ready with our draft when and if they wish to act.

Sorry to say....Until SXS owners can get motivated to organize, and not expect a handful of people to do it for them, you might consider buying a 4 seater, and helmets.

This thread is yet another example of our communities lack of interest. 3000 members, and we have one person who has actually taken a moment of his time to ask for a meeting with his legislator.

Not a great hyjack subject, and I know your just curious, so its not directed at you individually, but the most frustrating thing about doing this kind of work is apathy. I use the word, work loosly as that implies compensation and I don't currently receive any for advocacy efforts.

Jeff,
I agree, there is a lack of interest in people from this forum and from around the country. But speaking for myself and possibly others on this forum, I don’t know where to actually start. If I did make a meeting like Dan (dkiewicz) with a legislator what do I expect and what should be discussed? I guess the point for me is not a lack of interest but a lack of knowledge and some fear of what to expect. For people like me where do we get educated on this kind of information so when we do step up we don’t get run over.

For me it’s not a lack of interest but a fear of the unknown.

Ryan

 

[SKEETER9]

Jeff,
I agree, there is a lack of interest in people from this forum and from around the country. But speaking for myself and possibly others on this forum, I don’t know where to actually start. If I did make a meeting like Dan (dkiewicz) with a legislator what do I expect and what should be discussed? I guess the point for me is not a lack of interest but a lack of knowledge and some fear of what to expect. For people like me where do we get educated on this kind of information so when we do step up we don’t get run over.

For me it’s not a lack of interest but a fear of the unknown.

Ryan

X2

predator never prey...

 

[Jeff Knoll]

Jeff,
I agree, there is a lack of interest in people from this forum and from around the country. But speaking for myself and possibly others on this forum, I don’t know where to actually start. If I did make a meeting like Dan (dkiewicz) with a legislator what do I expect and what should be discussed? I guess the point for me is not a lack of interest but a lack of knowledge and some fear of what to expect. For people like me where do we get educated on this kind of information so when we do step up we don’t get run over.

For me it’s not a lack of interest but a fear of the unknown.

Ryan

Your not alone. I will try and help.

Teach a man to fish vs give a man a fish comes to mind here, so there will be required homework for this post to mean something.


First let me say that short of a few ego maniacs that are career politicians most Legislators are real people just like us. I have found in every experience I have had that they are likable people who care what I have to say. If they don't they are doing a good job hiding any displeasure.

If you go in with an open mind, and try and have a positive conversation you will go far. Offer solutions, and make sure you keep in the back of your mind very few people ever attempt to talk about good things, only bad.

Take notes with you and leave an expanded version with the person you talk with so they can read it or pass it on. It is not likely you will get a meeting with the Legislator the first time. An assistant will filter the Legislator, so leaving good paperwork is key.

Become the expert that your legislator can call on when he has questions about OHV issues in your district.

So again this year we are focused on Johnson Valley, but by all means you can discuss any item that is important to you. If Helmets are the biggest thing for you, than discuss that.

If you want to start your conversation with Johnson Valley we have provided everything for you at ORBA

http://www.orba.biz/2nd-annual-ohv-lobby-days-to-be-held-during-the-month-of-april/

Gives you details about Lobby days

http://www.orba.biz/common-ground-johnson-valley-ohv-area-solutions/

Gives you the education and documents to leave with your legislator

http://www.orba.biz/ohv-lobby-day-talking-points/

Is a single page talking points document for you to use.

You can use this format to talk about what ever is important to you.

You can find your Legislator by using Google.

Stay diligent, and don't give up. Email and call if needed. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Does this help? Please let me know.

 

[Ali Baba]

I tried to gather data, photos to create a collage to share with people. I hit all the forums I posted my email everywhere. About 6 people sent me photos. I am sorry but a voice of 6 does not do much. It seems like people are not concerned with it or they just don't care.

I believe I posted pics on one of your threads. If I need to, I will send you some more. I am concerned. I made phone calls to Paul Cooks office and some others. I want to know what else I can do. Hopefully we just haven't given up. I can't afford to just go and buy a new four seater.

 

[Ali Baba]

Exactly what Rusty said. The ISA Board drafted legislative language that would offer a common sense solution, but with no money, no members, and no interest it sits with no voice. (BTW we spent the better part of a weekend to create that language basically for nothing. ever try to write a law?)

There are a number of groups attempting to push legislation, but from what I have seen they will not go far with it.

I can't even use my association with ORBA on this item, as our board has adopted a wait and see approach since our membership is divided on the subject. I will be ready with our draft when and if they wish to act.

Sorry to say....Until SXS owners can get motivated to organize, and not expect a handful of people to do it for them, you might consider buying a 4 seater, and helmets.

This thread is yet another example of our communities lack of interest. 3000 members, and we have one person who has actually taken a moment of his time to ask for a meeting with his legislator.

Not a great hyjack subject, and I know your just curious, so its not directed at you individually, but the most frustrating thing about doing this kind of work is apathy. I use the word, work loosly as that implies compensation and I don't currently receive any for advocacy efforts.

I've never tried to write a law and I thank you for your help and I can sympathize with your frustration. Why do you believe that the groups that are trying to push legislation to change the four seat conversions back to legal will not be succesful? And why is your membership divided on this subject? Jeff I apreciate your efforts. And I know that you're not recieving compensation for this. But I do realize that you have answers to questions that I'm asking and that's why I'm inquiring. At anyrate, if it's not a bother, let me know what I can do to help. If it's money, posting a new thread, emails, or phone calls, I'll do something. Thanks.

 

[dkiewicz]

Yup, what Jeff said.... I am "cramming" for my public speaking engagement. This is no different than having a one-on-one with your professor.

You need to be able to speak freely, speak intelligently about the subject demonstrating your grasp of the issue(s), be tactful but concise, do not waffle on the issue make your point and stick to your guns, and lastly offer to continue to "help".

Ask to be kept in the loop. Hell you might even be asked to testify before a committee if you make a good enough impression. Remember, these are folks who put their pants on just like you and I, one leg at a time.

From H.R 4310 for those who haven't seen it.... And the president said Jan. 03, 2013:


"Today I have signed into law H.R. 4310, the "National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2013." I have approved this annual defense authorization legislation, as I have in previous years, because it authorizes essential support for service members and their families, renews vital national security programs, and helps ensure that the United States will continue to have the strongest military in the world."



"SEC. 2856. LIMITATION ON AVAILABILITY OF FUNDS PENDING REPORT REGARDING ACQUISITION OF LAND AND DEVELOPMENT OF A TRAINING RANGE FACILITY ADJACENT TO THE MARINE CORPS AIR GROUND COMBAT CENTER TWENTYNINE PALMS, CALIFORNIA.

• (a) Findings- Congress makes the following findings:
  • (1) The Marine Corps has studied the feasibility of acquiring land and developing a training range facility to conduct Marine Expeditionary Brigade level live-fire training on or near the West Coast.
    (2) The Bureau of Land Management estimates on national economic impact show $261,500,000 in commerce at risk.
    (3) Economic impact on the local community is estimated to be $71,100,000.
  (b) Limitation of Funds Pending Report-
  
  • (1) IN GENERAL- The Secretary of the Navy may not obligate or expend funds for the transfer of land or development of a new training range on land adjacent to the Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center Twentynine Palms, California, until the Secretary of the Navy has provided the congressional defense committees a report on the Marine Corps’ efforts with respect to the proposed training range.
    (2) ELEMENTS OF REPORT- The report required under paragraph (1) shall be submitted not later than 90 (by April 3rd djk) days after the date of the enactment of this Act and shall include the following:
    • (A) A description of the actual training requirements for the proposed range and where those training requirements are currently being met to support combat deployments.
      (B) Identification of the impact on off-road vehicle recreational users of the land, the economic impact on the local economy, the recreation industry, and any other stakeholders.
      (C) Identification of any concerns discussed with the Bureau of Land Management regarding their assessments of the impact on other users.
      (D) Identification of the impact on the State of California’s 1980 Desert Conservation Plan regarding allocation of the Off Highway Vehicle Recreation Areas.
      (E) An evaluation of the potential to use the same land without transfer, but under specific permits for use provided by the Bureau of Land Management (as such permits are used at other locations from the Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management).
      (F) An evaluation of any potential impacts on other Bureau of Land Management lands proximate to Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center Twentynine Palms or other locations in the geographic region.
    (3) SECRETARY OF DEFENSE WAIVER- In the event of urgent national need, the Secretary of Defense may notify the congressional defense committees and waive the requirement for the report required under paragraph (1)."
    
    
    I wonder if 3 will be invoked.... Hmmm, North Korea invades South Korea making a good argument for urgent national need..... Man we are always on the back side of this crap...
    
    
    
    Fight on brothers and sisters!!!!!
    
    
    

 

[Rusty5150]

I believe I posted pics on one of your threads. If I need to, I will send you some more. I am concerned. I made phone calls to Paul Cooks office and some others. I want to know what else I can do. Hopefully we just haven't given up. I can't afford to just go and buy a new four seater.

Yes, you did and few others did as well. But out of the 3 forums I focused my effort towards (25,000 +/-) people around 10 people wanted to get involved. 10, 15 or even 30 people is a very small group. The effort I would have to put forth is not worth it when only 10 or 20 people are behind it. I would love to see the 4-seat rule removed. I am 50/50 on the subject.

 

[VBosch02]

Your not alone. I will try and help.

Teach a man to fish vs give a man a fish comes to mind here, so there will be required homework for this post to mean something.


First let me say that short of a few ego maniacs that are career politicians most Legislators are real people just like us. I have found in every experience I have had that they are likable people who care what I have to say. If they don't they are doing a good job hiding any displeasure.

If you go in with an open mind, and try and have a positive conversation you will go far. Offer solutions, and make sure you keep in the back of your mind very few people ever attempt to talk about good things, only bad.

Take notes with you and leave an expanded version with the person you talk with so they can read it or pass it on. It is not likely you will get a meeting with the Legislator the first time. An assistant will filter the Legislator, so leaving good paperwork is key.

Become the expert that your legislator can call on when he has questions about OHV issues in your district.

So again this year we are focused on Johnson Valley, but by all means you can discuss any item that is important to you. If Helmets are the biggest thing for you, than discuss that.

If you want to start your conversation with Johnson Valley we have provided everything for you at ORBA

http://www.orba.biz/2nd-annual-ohv-lobby-days-to-be-held-during-the-month-of-april/

Gives you details about Lobby days

http://www.orba.biz/common-ground-johnson-valley-ohv-area-solutions/

Gives you the education and documents to leave with your legislator

http://www.orba.biz/ohv-lobby-day-talking-points/

Is a single page talking points document for you to use.

You can use this format to talk about what ever is important to you.

You can find your Legislator by using Google.

Stay diligent, and don't give up. Email and call if needed. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Does this help? Please let me know.

I appreciate the response Jeff and I will do my homework. My knowledge of all that is going is lacking but I will study and do all I can to help make an impact. I have to! I have a 4 week old son that I want to be able to enjoy our deserts with in the future.

 

[Ali Baba]

Yes, you did and few others did as well. But out of the 3 forums I focused my effort towards (25,000 +/-) people around 10 people wanted to get involved. 10, 15 or even 30 people is a very small group. The effort I would have to put forth is not worth it when only 10 or 20 people are behind it. I would love to see the 4-seat rule removed. I am 50/50 on the subject.

Why 50/50? Just curious... It's seems like people have information that I don't have. My car is built legit and it's safe for passengers back there. Ive been doing it for four years! I've logged over 4,300 miles like this. What gives?

 

[Jeff Knoll]

Why do you believe that the groups that are trying to push legislation to change the four seat conversions back to legal will not be succesful?

Its a complicated question, but I will attempt to answer.
I have heard of two separate attempts working currently. One sponsored by Assemblyman Tim Donnelly. Donnelly does not have a good track record of being able to move legislation. There are a lot of things in play in being an affective Legislator. Some are better than others.

The other I have heard little about except it includes car seats, and exemption for children of some sort in regards to Helmets. I don't think anything with carseats or kids will move.

Our (ISA) language only covers 4 seaters, and leaves the helmet law alone. We would need to find a Legislator to sponsor our bill, preferably a Democrat. That takes a lobbyists, or a organized group to convince a legislator to introduce. We (ISA) don't have the strength.

And why is your membership divided on this subject?

ORBA is made up of Off Road Businesses. We have a number of Manufactures, and aftermarket members who fall on opposite sides of the fence. Like all advocacy groups money is tight, so we choose our battles wisely. Right now we have some big issues we are dealing with, and our board feels that we need to stay on those since we are a divided house on ab 1595, and 64.

FWIW there are aftermarket members who don't want to see changes to 1595 in regards to 4 seat conversions.

 

[Rusty5150]

Why 50/50? Just curious... It's seems like people have information that I don't have. My car is built legit and it's safe for passengers back there. Ive been doing it for four years! I've logged over 4,300 miles like this. What gives?

I still see to many people packing 3 adults in the back of a UTV and heading to the drags or that type of thing. The UTV bed is designed to carry 400 lbs of weight with a low center of gravity. The bed depth is 10 to 12" depending on the model. 2 or 3 adults stuffed into the bed of UTV is a bad idea.

 

[Ali Baba]

I still see to many people packing 3 adults in the back of a UTV and heading to the drags or that type of thing. The UTV bed is designed to carry 400 lbs of weight with a low center of gravity. The bed depth is 10 to 12" depending on the model. 2 or 3 adults stuffed into the bed of UTV is a bad idea.

I agree. Three adults is a bad idea! You can't fix stupid. Personally my rear seat is mounted to the frame. My cage is mounted to the frame and I don't let anyone under the age of 13 or 100 lbs back there.

 

[Ali Baba]

Its a complicated question, but I will attempt to answer.
I have heard of two separate attempts working currently. One sponsored by Assemblyman Tim Donnelly. Donnelly does not have a good track record of being able to move legislation. There are a lot of things in play in being an affective Legislator. Some are better than others.

The other I have heard little about except it includes car seats, and exemption for children of some sort in regards to Helmets. I don't think anything with carseats or kids will move.

Our (ISA) language only covers 4 seaters, and leaves the helmet law alone. We would need to find a Legislator to sponsor our bill, preferably a Democrat. That takes a lobbyists, or a organized group to convince a legislator to introduce. We (ISA) don't have the strength.




ORBA is made up of Off Road Businesses. We have a number of Manufactures, and aftermarket members who fall on opposite sides of the fence. Like all advocacy groups money is tight, so we choose our battles wisely. Right now we have some big issues we are dealing with, and our board feels that we need to stay on those since we are a divided house on ab 1595, and 64.

FWIW there are aftermarket members who don't want to see changes to 1595 in regards to 4 seat conversions.

Thank you for your response. So what is a guy like me to do? It seems hopeless! Is that apathy? Or just the feeling I get from reading posts like these? And I understand that there are probably a lot of aftermarket companies that support ab1595. All of the four seat conversions are done being built. All the sxs companies have four seaters. They have us by the balls and there is no money in aftermarket products for a four seat conversion anymore. Their hope is that a guy like me will buy a new four seater and dress it out with new aftermarket parts. They are just as guilty as the sxs companies that hired Rohva to create a law to protect themselves by sue happy Californians. Regardless I will call Tim Donnelly and see what I can do. I have a student who interns for Senator Joel Anderson. I'll see if he can do something.

 

[Jeff Knoll]

Thank you for your response. So what is a guy like me to do? It seems hopeless! Is that apathy? Or just the feeling I get from reading posts like these? And I understand that there are probably a lot of aftermarket companies that support ab1595. All of the four seat conversions are done being built. All the sxs companies have four seaters. They have us by the balls and there is no money in aftermarket products for a four seat conversion anymore. Their hope is that a guy like me will buy a new four seater and dress it out with new aftermarket parts. They are just as guilty as the sxs companies that hired Rohva to create a law to protect themselves by sue happy Californians. Regardless I will call Tim Donnelly and see what I can do. I have a student who interns for Senator Joel Anderson. I'll see if he can do something.

Great first step, call Donnelly and offer your help. We could use some help getting people interested in what we are trying to accomplish as well. Perhaps you can suggest our language to Donnelly? I will try and dig it up when I am have the time.

 

[VBosch02]

Your not alone. I will try and help.

Teach a man to fish vs give a man a fish comes to mind here, so there will be required homework for this post to mean something.


First let me say that short of a few ego maniacs that are career politicians most Legislators are real people just like us. I have found in every experience I have had that they are likable people who care what I have to say. If they don't they are doing a good job hiding any displeasure.

If you go in with an open mind, and try and have a positive conversation you will go far. Offer solutions, and make sure you keep in the back of your mind very few people ever attempt to talk about good things, only bad.

Take notes with you and leave an expanded version with the person you talk with so they can read it or pass it on. It is not likely you will get a meeting with the Legislator the first time. An assistant will filter the Legislator, so leaving good paperwork is key.

Become the expert that your legislator can call on when he has questions about OHV issues in your district.

So again this year we are focused on Johnson Valley, but by all means you can discuss any item that is important to you. If Helmets are the biggest thing for you, than discuss that.

If you want to start your conversation with Johnson Valley we have provided everything for you at ORBA

http://www.orba.biz/2nd-annual-ohv-lobby-days-to-be-held-during-the-month-of-april/

Gives you details about Lobby days

http://www.orba.biz/common-ground-johnson-valley-ohv-area-solutions/

Gives you the education and documents to leave with your legislator

http://www.orba.biz/ohv-lobby-day-talking-points/

Is a single page talking points document for you to use.

You can use this format to talk about what ever is important to you.

You can find your Legislator by using Google.

Stay diligent, and don't give up. Email and call if needed. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Does this help? Please let me know.

Jeff -

This has helped and yes you can teach a man to fish. This is my first attempt at meeting with a Legislator and to say it's not a little scary to even send the email is an understatement. Here is my email to my representative and I hope that she or one of her staff will meet with me in April.

Dear Mrs. Roybal-Allard
I know that you are very busy women so I only request a little of your time. I would appreciate, as outdoor enthusiast and concerned citizen, that you would take time to listen to my concerns regarding the Johnson Valley OHV and recreation are. Johnson Valley BLM land is on the verge of being annexed by the Marine base Fort Irwin. I would like to discuss my concerns regarding the Marines take over and how it would affect local communities, economy and outdoor enthusiasts from around the country. I would also like to discuss other alternatives that would benefit all parties concerned with this annex. If possible I would like to solicit 30 min of your time to discuss this situation in your coming recesses in the month of April.
Thank you for your time
Ryan Vanden Bosch

Jeff I appreciate all the information that you have provided and I hope that others will take up the call and do what they can as well. I know that my family and friends are being hounded by me to take up the call as well.

 

[UtvMilitant]

oh man. let us know how it goes!