Baja/Race Karma...

[acme]

This was the first Baja 500 I missed in a long time. I wasn't there but had a number of friends who were and few mentioned this bottleneck. If you look at this thread you'll see where it takes an interesting turn and the "4x4 blue lighters" become a focus of a lot of frustration.

For those that may not be aware of it: Driving around a line of fellow racers waiting at a bottle neck and forcing your way back in is a total rookie, cheese-dick move... Period. A guy waives you around it's one thing, taking another line is another. But to drive around the line and think that you can cut in further ahead and that's okay is pretty douchy. If you want to play that game in your class, that's on you. But passing faster classes is not the smartest and Karma will come back to bite you.

I applaud Johnny for stepping up and taking responsibility for his move. Hopefully others involved will learn from it as karma is a bitch and racers remember cheese dick moves.

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/threads/is-this-racing.125842/

 

[NIKAL]

I partially agree with this. This is racing and some of the guys who whine about it are the same ones who feel they are faster so they should always be first. I'm sorry, but its always those faster classes that are causing the bottle necks for the rest. Mini Trucks are famous for screwing up the limited classes, who cant afford the down time, or dicking around with getting their rear axle off the rut or rock.

I too have been screwed over more time by bottle necks, then been on the positive side of one. IMO if you can get around one, and keep moving, then more power to you, and the other "faster" guys need to man up and quit bitching. But where I do agree is a dick move, is when you you cut around the line, only to pull back into that line, to wait your turn. If your going to find away around the line, you need to find away through or around the bottle neck and keep moving.

 

[george.felix]

This is only considered a dick move in desert racing....keep in mind people have various backgrounds and X country racing bikes is all about finding a go around. My only regret is not looking for a way around during pre run because I think there prob was.

 

[george.felix]

Yeah I can see the point of staying put but everyone needs to abide. I agree we should have focused our energy on finding a way around not just further up the line. Only utvs could have a chance to pull this off. Everyone afraid to go alone but treated like a mine field I think we may have been able. If lead got stuck the next one back could pull it out.

 

[acme]

If you drive around to give an alternate route a shot, great, no issue! I myself have done that. Now, you just have to deal with the off course aspects of the rules..

To cut around cars to cut back in in is rookie. To do it seemingly as a group pretty arrogant. I totally agree with slower cars hosing more capable cars just as I agree that it's sad that all it takes is a fat wallet and no regard for experience or talent to enter the upper classes in desert racing. Last time I looked I don't think they hand out a top fuel, F1, Indy car licenses to anyone that pays the entry?

The fact is this format of racing is unique and with it come unique issues. It seems that placing a probable bottleneck at the beginning of a race is on the promoter. But driving around say faster class 10 cars while they are waiting impatiently and cutting in front of them is "cheese-dick"...

I just wanted to give you guys a heads up as some of UTV racers don't have much history or experience in desert racing and the blue lights all look the same from the rear.

 

[acme]

I too have been screwed over more time by bottle necks, then been on the positive side of one. IMO if you can get around one, and keep moving, then more power to you, and the other "faster" guys need to man up and quit bitching. But where I do agree is a dick move, is when you you cut around the line, only to pull back into that line, to wait your turn. If your going to find away around the line, you need to find away through or around the bottle neck and keep moving.

Exactly!!!!

We lost the 500 one year by 30 mins after a fluke electrical issue set us back almost 2 hrs and the bottleneck at the summit cost the wife another hr. I then ran into a stuck 8 truck parked in a blind silt corner with no flagger and had a TT get stuck in front of me after I got impatient and too close in Uraupan. Probably cost me 10 mins or more and I chased a slow car for 1/2 the last 20 miles in the foggy/rain and he wouldn't yield and when he finally did we beat him to the finish by almost 20 mins. Parker I passed 58 cars on lap 1 one year, and lead the overall of the two lappers after starting last off the line. I knew the slower classes and faster cars in certain areas would be there and we just dealt with them.

999 out of 1000 times a 6100 is faster than any UTV just ask Johnny. But in a tight rocky spot you have an advantage which is why those archaic VW powered 16 cars are so fast down there and beat all but 2 of the UTV's. They have less motor, less wheel travel and are no where near as plush.

I just suggest you don't piss off faster drivers and classes with a go around the line and cut in move and doing it as a group shows a lack of knowledge and/or respect.

I think with my attitude I might belong back in the buggy ranks...

 

[george.felix]

Again to learn from mistakes I think we would have been better served if we found a way around then we would have put an hour on the buggy classes. Best thing would have been to team with another willing Utv because it would have been a risky move but if I had to bet just from the general look of the topography I'd say 75% chance we could have. Maybe a winch next time.....

 

[Kalop]

There's no easy solution. Like Johnny said on his post, he was so far back that he took off to find an alternate line.... then once you realize you have NO PLACE to go even with narrow width and 4x4 .... then what? Your forced to cut.... or sit forever, might as well pack it up and go home. Ugh Sux This has to fall on SCORE for picking better routes at beginning.

 

[JoeyD23]

If you want some real Baja Karma you can always stop at Rancho Milagros on the way into Ensenada off the old highway and make a cash donation or drop off supplies. This orphanage houses kids of all ages and is ran purely off of donations and support from people like you and me. Every trip I make it a point to bring clothes, cleaning supplies, school supplies and even money to them. If you want to earn some serious Baja Karma hit me up and I will pass along the information so you and your team can get the most out of your Baja experience. Trust me, the good you feel when giving to the less fortunate is just as good as the feeling you get when you cross the finish line...

 

[acme]

Last two and I tap:

1) Why do the UTV guys worry so much about beating the other classes? Is there a bonus? Get over it and worry about your own class. If someone in my class pulled a quickie in front of me and got an advantage via a rookie move I would be very aggravated. If I was in a faster car and they cost me time I would be very, very frustrated and aggressive to get by...

2) Joey you are correct and there are a few places we have made stops with stuff in Baja and Rancho Milagros is one. It's always good for the soul.

 

[Johnny]

this was the exact subject I wanted to touch on here as a class we now look like a bunch of dick heads and first move in the future for us should be to stay the fuck in line and if you have the balls tell your co driver to get out your car and find you a line but not back in line infront of the pack .. a couple of years ago when Burnett did it it was not a organized line like at this race .. so he didnt wait for a invitation and won the 500 .. this was a bit more of a cluster fuck we caused and all the guys we passed or most of them in the class 10 cars where not getting stuck on the hill .. you paid your entry fees so do what you want but as a class I think it should be discussed .. because it just might be me taking you out if im waiting in line and you pass me

 

[JoeyD23]

Last two and I tap:

1) Why do the UTV guys worry so much about beating the other classes? Is there a bonus? Get over it and worry about your own class. If someone in my class pulled a quickie in front of me and got an advantage via a rookie move I would be very aggravated. If I was in a faster car and they cost me time I would be very, very frustrated and aggressive to get by...

2) Joey you are correct and there are a few places we have made stops with stuff in Baja and Rancho Milagros is one. It's always good for the soul.

In more recent times I never really hear UTV guys claim anything in regards to beating other classes. That need to for validation is sort of gone as its pretty clear that majority of off-road racing now respects the UTV class, for the most part. In the beginning that worry or need for pointing out the finishing times was used to combat other off-road (usually RDC keyboard racers) as to why UTVs deserved to be moved up in the starting grid or deserved to be considered real race vehicles and not just golf carts. I can't remember the last time I saw a UTV guy put it out there that they are faster than another class without another class racer first attacking the UTV guys. With that said, its done in all classes, more specifically between class 10 and TT Spec.

Glad you agree on the stops in Baja. Whether its Rancho Milagro or any other orphanage, church or facility in need, do something to leave a little to the people who constantly welcome us into their country. I am sick of seeing the racers that roll into town, speak down upon the locals, treat the towns and country like its their playground and not someone's home and worse. Baja is a fun place, a great place to cut loose and feel a little bit of what it used to be like in the wild west. But lets not forget to do our part to ensure we are welcomed back for many many more years!

 

[Johnny]

im not worried about beating any other classes and if it wasnt for the actions of others I would have sat in line

 

[Johnny]

a little while longer and I could have taken off my helmet and showed off the new haircut and surprised the whole utv class

 

[motive]

I think the guys at the top of the food chain are starting to see the utvs class as legitimate. Many of them are starting to dabble in utv racing in one format or another. They dont have to compete for the track with utvs. But there are still a lot of limited class drivers that get but hurt every time there is a utv on their tail. Anyone else besides the Red Lands car get stuck behind a car at the Mint where the other car not only wouldn't move aside but pulled maneuvers to prevent being passed for miles? I would bet money there are a bunch of utv racers that wouldn't nerf a car from another class because it would be an invitation for them to start nerfing utvs back. There is defiantly different attitudes between utvs and other classestuff towards things like nerfing. It's cool that the class as a whole is a tight knit group but it also makes some look at us like outsiders. Racing rookies that decided to go play with their golf carts in the desert. It's getting better. The front runners in one class being faster than the tail end of anothere class does not make a faster class that should be moved up in start order. We are going have to prove every opportunity that we belong out there and that we will play by the rules (written or otherwise) that everyone else has adopted over the history of desert racing.

 

[tatum]

This was the first Baja 500 I missed in a long time. I wasn't there but had a number of friends who were and few mentioned this bottleneck. If you look at this thread you'll see where it takes an interesting turn and the "4x4 blue lighters" become a focus of a lot of frustration.

For those that may not be aware of it: Driving around a line of fellow racers waiting at a bottle neck and forcing your way back in is a total rookie, cheese-dick move... Period. A guy waives you around it's one thing, taking another line is another. But to drive around the line and think that you can cut in further ahead and that's okay is pretty douchy. If you want to play that game in your class, that's on you. But passing faster classes is not the smartest and Karma will come back to bite you.

I applaud Johnny for stepping up and taking responsibility for his move. Hopefully others involved will learn from it as karma is a bitch and racers remember cheese dick moves.

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/threads/is-this-racing.125842/

I completely get your point but that forum is full of cheese dick douches that could get beat by 3 hours and wouldn't give the golf carters an ounce of credit.

 

[george.felix]

I don't know if it was my comment that promted it but I didn't mean to imply putting an hr on the buggies in any other way than to not be mixed in with them at the top of the hill......had nothing to do with beating them at all. I may have given the wrong impression so just to clarify. As it were some buggies passed me and I passed some but didn't get nerfed hard just the right amount and I think was all clean in that respect....at least for me.

 

[tatum]

If you want some real Baja Karma you can always stop at Rancho Milagros on the way into Ensenada off the old highway and make a cash donation or drop off supplies. This orphanage houses kids of all ages and is ran purely off of donations and support from people like you and me. Every trip I make it a point to bring clothes, cleaning supplies, school supplies and even money to them. If you want to earn some serious Baja Karma hit me up and I will pass along the information so you and your team can get the most out of your Baja experience. Trust me, the good you feel when giving to the less fortunate is just as good as the feeling you get when you cross the finish line...

Great post Joey. When we were watching qualifying I meet the people who run an orphanage on the property out there. Seeing all those little kids who have no family was heart wrenching and it felt great to give them all the cash I had. I have their info as well and plan to keep helping.