2015 Best in the Desert UTV rule book
- Thread starter UTV Racing Association
- Start date
JoeyD23
#utvunderground
Brandon finished last season with his 900 and raced well into this year with it. You think Brandon really wanted to keep racing his 900 against a bunch of 1000s? lol
JoeyD23
#utvunderground
its going to happen and then everyone is going to wish they didn't open this can of worms.
Bajaxp
SXS Racer Extraordinaire - UTVUnderground Approved
[/QUOTE]
UTV desert racing should be a normally aspirated. Much easier to regulate. Who is going to monitor ECU settings that control the waste gate on the turbo? Some ECU whisperer is going to tweak this and one car will have 120 hp and another will have 135, with no physical changes. Can of worms.
The tire thing is the next frontier for our class. The add weight as Jim said could be an issue, but you don't have to run the larger stuff. The magic is finding that sweet spot. Then we will be able to not just run with 2/1600's but we should be faster.
the stripping shop
RACER - UTVUnderground Approved
UTV desert racing should be a normally aspirated. Much easier to regulate. Who is going to monitor ECU settings that control the waste gate on the turbo? Some ECU whisperer is going to tweak this and one car will have 120 hp and another will have 135, with no physical changes. Can of worms.
Just like bill said the HP is what kills you. But lets say you built low compression motor small cc with a turbo to run same hp as Polaris desert motor. Then which one would require less maintenance and last the longer. Would it be the high compression motor cc to the max or low compression small cc with turbo last longer. Maybe if manufacters made it cheaper/easier to buy complete drivetrain this wouldn't be a discussion.
The tire thing is the next frontier for our class. The add weight as Jim said could be an issue, but you don't have to run the larger stuff. The magic is finding that sweet spot. Then we will be able to not just run with 2/1600's but we should be faster.[/QUOTE]
I am with you on tire size I am pretty sure 15" rim on a 33 skinny tire like the vw guys run is lighter then 15" omf with 30 bfg ko you guys run or its pretty dam close.
Just like bill said the HP is what kills you. But lets say you built low compression motor small cc with a turbo to run same hp as Polaris desert motor. Then which one would require less maintenance and last the longer. Would it be the high compression motor cc to the max or low compression small cc with turbo last longer. Maybe if manufacters made it cheaper/easier to buy complete drivetrain this wouldn't be a discussion.
The tire thing is the next frontier for our class. The add weight as Jim said could be an issue, but you don't have to run the larger stuff. The magic is finding that sweet spot. Then we will be able to not just run with 2/1600's but we should be faster.[/QUOTE]
I am with you on tire size I am pretty sure 15" rim on a 33 skinny tire like the vw guys run is lighter then 15" omf with 30 bfg ko you guys run or its pretty dam close.
the stripping shop
RACER - UTVUnderground Approved
I would say yes ask his wallet. Just because he was given car for free doesn't mean we built car for free.
badassmav
Well-Known Member
MP hit the nail on the head bringing up ECU's , and the monitoring/checking of them. I know they have digital/electronic adjustments and controls within the ECU that could, if altered, enhance the turbo's performance. How does one enforce the aftermarket programming (or non-programming) of an electronic system with digital security devices that are proprietary to each system?
Tearing apart motors? Are you kidding me? I'm with beerman on this one (heck, Im always with beer, man!). Some helper guy is busy tearing off your head and the like, while the volumetric sheriff comes around with his wand of authority to whip us into submission. No thanks. Don't politicize this class too much, or it will not remain as it currently is. A fun, cheaper alternative to race a high tech suspended car in the desert. Besides, the cvt's can barely handle the power they transmit now. 150 hp through the existing drive sustem will not get you to the finish line any sooner. It will however, get you a quick pass to the side lines.
Tearing apart motors? Are you kidding me? I'm with beerman on this one (heck, Im always with beer, man!). Some helper guy is busy tearing off your head and the like, while the volumetric sheriff comes around with his wand of authority to whip us into submission. No thanks. Don't politicize this class too much, or it will not remain as it currently is. A fun, cheaper alternative to race a high tech suspended car in the desert. Besides, the cvt's can barely handle the power they transmit now. 150 hp through the existing drive sustem will not get you to the finish line any sooner. It will however, get you a quick pass to the side lines.
Yes having engines checked is a total PITA! But it can be necessary to make sure everyone is playing by the rules, especially in a class where specific rules are written about the engine. You give an inch, many will take a foot. Many limited class have post race tech, so it would not just be a UTV thing. The UTV's would just be joining the club.
And the reason for having engine seals is to stop the idea of tearing down & inspecting after the race. For most this would be the most logical and cost efficient way of policing the class. For teams who have engine sponsors or are getting new engines from the manufactures. I see how this could be an issue, but the majority don't have those perk's and for those who do, well I guess a few dollars that are saved getting free engines, could be applied to getting the engine tagged a few times a season.
BTW there are tools to inspect the engines, and the engine does not need to be torn down or heads pulled. Bill Hammack who tech's CODE and tech'ed the old Fud series has some new tools that are pretty trick for measuring CC's & Compression Ratios and only the spark plug needs to be pulled.
I 110% agree and this is why I have made comments about the Race Tech/Director racing. Its a huge conflict of interest and should be dealt with. IMO the current tech/director should keep racing as that is why he is here, and its my understanding that he took the Director role when the class was new and needed a leader. But the class has grown and its time to have someone impartial running Tech for the better of the sport. There should either be a UTV specific Tech Director, or the Race Series Tech Director should start handling the UTV class, as they handle all the other 4 wheel classes.
I'm still a strong supporter of Class Rep's who are the direct go to between the Racer & the Promoter. This could be a position the current UTV Tech Director fills if they so chose to stay in the loop. But a class Rep is not there to make or enforce the rules, they are the voice for the Class when the class has a concern or wants to consider a rule change. IMO all major rule changes should go to a vote and only those who are registered members of the series can vote (So a guy like me with no dog in the fight cant have a voice!
)Or better yet 33"
Cory I am lobbying SCORE for the bigger tires for 2016. Call me.
As Bajaxp & I have said the 33" tire is the future of this class. That is what will bring this class closer to the 1600 cars and this is where you will see the biggest overall improvement. Right now the UTV class runs the smallest tire of all the 4 wheel vehicle classes. Even class 11 fits up to a 31 inch tire under their fenders. BFG just developed a new 35 inch tire for class 10 & class 12 cars. Watch next year more then 1/2 of the class 10's will be on this new tire and watch the performance improvements you will see with this new 35 inch tire.
BiggJim
I Hate Rules - UTVUnderground Approved
Brandon was winning with it...why fix something that aint broke.
the stripping shop
RACER - UTVUnderground Approved
You are correct on that. But if Polaris came out with turbo would they want Brandon to race 1000na or 1000 turbo. He was winning in 1000na but he was slowed down with out the turbo lol.
BiggJim
I Hate Rules - UTVUnderground Approved
Yes having engines checked is a total PITA! But it can be necessary to make sure everyone is playing by the rules, especially in a class where specific rules are written about the engine. You give an inch, many will take a foot. Many limited class have post race tech, so it would not just be a UTV thing. The UTV's would just be joining the club.
And the reason for having engine seals is to stop the idea of tearing down & inspecting after the race. For most this would be the most logical and cost efficient way of policing the class. For teams who have engine sponsors or are getting new engines from the manufactures. I see how this could be an issue, but the majority don't have those perk's and for those who do, well I guess a few dollars that are saved getting free engines, could be applied to getting the engine tagged a few times a season.
BTW there are tools to inspect the engines, and the engine does not need to be torn down or heads pulled. Bill Hammack who tech's CODE and tech'ed the old Fud series has some new tools that are pretty trick for measuring CC's & Compression Ratios and only the spark plug needs to be pulled.
I 110% agree and this is why I have made comments about the Race Tech/Director racing. Its a huge conflict of interest and should be dealt with. IMO the current tech/director should keep racing as that is why he is here, and its my understanding that he took the Director role when the class was new and needed a leader. But the class has grown and its time to have someone impartial running Tech for the better of the sport. There should either be a UTV specific Tech Director, or the Race Series Tech Director should start handling the UTV class, as they handle all the other 4 wheel classes.
I'm still a strong supporter of Class Rep's who are the direct go to between the Racer & the Promoter. This could be a position the current UTV Tech Director fills if they so chose to stay in the loop. But a class Rep is not there to make or enforce the rules, they are the voice for the Class when the class has a concern or wants to consider a rule change. IMO all major rule changes should go to a vote and only those who are registered members of the series can vote (So a guy like me with no dog in the fight cant have a voice!
I disagree when it comes to engine tagging. In the Karting world they tag engines. When it come time for a new spec engine it now cost you 3 times as much because you have only 1 source to get it. So said vender is going to have a major mark up. This isnt a spec class, the rules state nothing over 1000CC's. As mentioned earlier there are tools to check this by pulling the spark plug. They use these tools in Lucas oil and they have been used on our car.
As far as the UTV race Tech.... I have been saying this since we started racing 4 years ago. Then when the wheel scales were brought to Parker to weigh everyone's car I really put up a fight. Now the turbo rule? I really don't see that Turbo to be a threat but I find it Hilarious that the moment it comes out its in the rules change.
JoeyD23
#utvunderground
Well if the rule is to allow turbos and the Can-Am now presents an advantage and polaris introduces a turbo then i would imagine they would want their best teams running their best equipment.
With that said, I know first hand that polaris said we are good with a no turbo rule and IF we were to introduce one we would still be fine playing by the rules and would not push to make them change.
With that said, I know first hand that polaris said we are good with a no turbo rule and IF we were to introduce one we would still be fine playing by the rules and would not push to make them change.
BiggJim
I Hate Rules - UTVUnderground Approved
I never said he did. Brandon is on always on his game. I am saying that I'd bet he didn't feel threatened about racing his 900 against 1000's. I know I wasnt excited about taking an untested car to the SS300.
the stripping shop
RACER - UTVUnderground Approved
As far as the UTV race Tech.... I have been saying this since we started racing 4 years ago. Then when the wheel scales were brought to Parker to weigh everyone's car I really put up a fight. Now the turbo rule? I really don't see that Turbo to be a threat but I find it Hilarious that the moment it comes out its in the rules change.[/QUOTE]
You are right but Polaris needs someone to race against or its just another class. Turbo rule/cc rule it changes when the manufacter wants it to change.
You are right but Polaris needs someone to race against or its just another class. Turbo rule/cc rule it changes when the manufacter wants it to change.
facteryfmf
Looking For a Few Good Men - UTVUnderground Approv
You are right but Polaris needs someone to race against or its just another class. Turbo rule/cc rule it changes when the manufacter wants it to change.[/QUOTE]
You say that but I don't see dodge or GM sponsoring or having their own classes like Ford does w BITD.
The UTV class is not a spec engine class like a Karting class is. There would be no 1 source to buy your engines. You could get your engine from anyone or anywhere. The inspection is to make sure it meets the class rules. You could have 2, 3 or as many authorized shops or people you want to be authorized to tag an engine. The Series, Tech Director & Class Rep would set those perimeters and they can also set the price to have those tags done. Regarding a N/A engine should be able to be checked & tagged in 1 hours time. So figure 1 hour of shop labor, plus a $25 tag and recording fee.
Either this or you make a class rule that the top 4 finishers at each race get a displacement check at post race tech. This would be nothing new as class 1600, 5/1600, 9 & I think class 11 get CC checked & carb checked. (That is if the tech director is not being lazy!) 1600 is suppose to get scaled too, but I rarely see this happen.
Its not like you are being requested to have Bill Savage charge you $250 to have your chassis inspected and then have him request cash only, which goes right into his pocket and then he gives you shit when you request a receipt!
What class does Ford have in BITD? Yes Ford is a big supporter, but they dont have a Ford only class.
And yes having one manufacture dominate and pour money into a class is not a good thing. Just look at the Stock Mini, Stock SUV & Stock Full size classes BITD had. (class 3100, 4100 & 7300) Ford put up big contingency money and those classes thrived. Then Ford started sponsoring teams and getting guys like Rob Mac & Scott Douglas to race and giving parts to teams test. The class got so out of hand that the cost was more then racing in a much faster class. Unless you had a Ford with support you were not going to win, except if your Kent Kroeker with his Ram. The end result was Ford got their R&D which was used to support the Raptor program prior to it being released. As soon as Ford got what they wanted they left the class, which was already dieing on the vine due to them coming in and offering more then just contingency.
So yes having a manufacture dominate and offer some teams more then others does hurt the class.
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