2014 King Of The Hammers - YES there will be a UTV Race!
- Thread starter JoeyD23
- Start date
JoeyD23
#utvunderground
You do realize that most of the people here on utvug reading this are not racers but rather travel to the event to support guys like YOU who are racing by spectating and / or assisting!?
Rusty has done as much if not more to promote this race with us over the past 4/5 years than most racers. Without the efforts of Rusty and the utvug staff you wouldn't have hardly any UTV coverage or exposure. As far as I know we are one of if not the only UTV site to produce a legit hammers video 2 years in a row thanks to support from Polaris. And for the past 4/5 years we have written numerous stories and shot thousands of photos not just for our own coverage here but for coverage in print mags like UTV Off-Road.
My point is, we have our place as non racers. Hell, we probably spend more money to shoot a race and cover it for the week then most racers. I think KOH cost us around $25k just to film it last year!
As for Rusty's vehicle comment.. I tend to agree there however I do agree that you can repair and restore.
American Rock Rods
★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★
Joey, please don't think for a second that the racers are unappreciative of that. I obviously can't speak for everyone, but please know that I am personally happy about all of the coverage and support. I enjoy watching the coverage of every race, even those I didn't participate in. This year's baja video was amazing.
But that wasn't the point. This is potentially(probably) the last year. Do you want it to end? I don't. I don't know of anyone that does. The person who makes that decision is only going to be impressed by car count, and posts that scare off new racers won't help car count.
And not to sound unappreciative, but I would gladly trade the exposure I have received/will potentially receive for the opportunity to continue racing hammers. Come february 2015, I would much rather be racing than watching videos of years past. I don't know of any one that would disagree with that statement.
Unfortunately, Joey's post in the thread from last year about the difficulty of the race, seems to have come true.
"I think its absolutely going to scare people away. The question is, is that a bad thing or a good thing? It really depends on how you look at it. KOH is the toughest UTV race on the planet, it should be big and scary. You got to sack up to take it on!! Now, the negative is if it kills car counts to the point that Cole drops the class altogether. I am hoping that it motivates racers that competed this year as well as others who didn't race to say that they want to take on the most difficult race in the world! "
Dave tried to get the entry level racer in with the Sportsman class. The problem was the rules came out late and there has been no definition as to what the course will be. I think that is hurting entries in that class. As to the Pro class, a number of the racers from last year didn't enter this year, and there aren't a lot of new faces entered, so total is down. I know in the thread Jon started last year, there were several that said they were going to race this year, and aren't signed up. I wonder if the talk about the course and amount of possible damage is scaring them away?
I hate to see this race go away, as it is one of the most fun things we do all year. I have never raced anywhere except KOH, and this will be my fourth year entering cars and third year as a driver. I didn't drive my car last year, and regretted it after I saw the course. I thought it was awesome and wanted to try it.
"I think its absolutely going to scare people away. The question is, is that a bad thing or a good thing? It really depends on how you look at it. KOH is the toughest UTV race on the planet, it should be big and scary. You got to sack up to take it on!! Now, the negative is if it kills car counts to the point that Cole drops the class altogether. I am hoping that it motivates racers that competed this year as well as others who didn't race to say that they want to take on the most difficult race in the world! "
Dave tried to get the entry level racer in with the Sportsman class. The problem was the rules came out late and there has been no definition as to what the course will be. I think that is hurting entries in that class. As to the Pro class, a number of the racers from last year didn't enter this year, and there aren't a lot of new faces entered, so total is down. I know in the thread Jon started last year, there were several that said they were going to race this year, and aren't signed up. I wonder if the talk about the course and amount of possible damage is scaring them away?
I hate to see this race go away, as it is one of the most fun things we do all year. I have never raced anywhere except KOH, and this will be my fourth year entering cars and third year as a driver. I didn't drive my car last year, and regretted it after I saw the course. I thought it was awesome and wanted to try it.
Just got word that another guy from NM is racing KOH in the Pro UTV class, but hadn't registered yet because he was waiting on his pit crew to commit. He's coming now.
As for KOH being the toughest race in the world, that's why I am coming to race it. As long as it's not impossible, then it's a good race. If no UTVs finished, then might consider it a problem, but if 3 or more finish, then it's a challenge.
I wished Dave would keep the race going, part of me wants to think he's doing this to make more racers enter, but I'm afraid he's serious. I do know that Big Rich (WEROCK and Dirt Riot Racing) is planning on expanding UTV racing. Perhaps he will build something comparable. He has the ability, he runs some pretty well attended races already.
Well, see you on the lakebed, lets make this race memorable and fun..
As for KOH being the toughest race in the world, that's why I am coming to race it. As long as it's not impossible, then it's a good race. If no UTVs finished, then might consider it a problem, but if 3 or more finish, then it's a challenge.
I wished Dave would keep the race going, part of me wants to think he's doing this to make more racers enter, but I'm afraid he's serious. I do know that Big Rich (WEROCK and Dirt Riot Racing) is planning on expanding UTV racing. Perhaps he will build something comparable. He has the ability, he runs some pretty well attended races already.
Well, see you on the lakebed, lets make this race memorable and fun..
TREE68
too tall for the rzr
Thats exactly why im talking about. I dont have a utv this year. But i get slammed for wearing a t shirt or waving flags. I have pitted or chased for green army. Bechard. Norris racing. Giti gowland. I sold my jeep to get into utv. I will support any team at koh. Im there all week. Have 4wd. Rugged radio. Spare fuel. Trauma kit ect. Hit me up. See you on the rocks. At the camp fire. And on the lakebed. Koh rocks. Utvug rocks.
I don't think anyone meant to slam you or anyone else that is attending. The support from fellow UTV owners is very much appreciated.
The point as I read it, was that what will convince Dave Cole to keep having a UTV race is for more entries. All the support in the world won't keep the race going if he doesn't think there were enough entries.
Considering that they have added utv's to the Ultra 4 series for 2014, both East and West, it would seem obvious that they want to keep utv's around. I would assume Mr Cole will also consider the turn outs at these events in his decision making.
I have my machine all ready to go for the KOH race but can't take the 2 weeks off work to do it (way too busy).
Good luck to all who are competing
I have my machine all ready to go for the KOH race but can't take the 2 weeks off work to do it (way too busy).
Good luck to all who are competing
Me and two other guys where 100% on board to race but the rules where released late and the cost's kept going up. $1500 in fuel there and back, all the nickel and dime fee's, spare parts etc... Needing an extra camper on the lake bed. The cost is over 3k per person for us to race (Pro class). If I could get a sponser to cover all my entry fee's, I'd be in
.
.
American Rock Rods
★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★
Only one way to find out. Call companies and ask. $1000 cash will cover it. Granted, that is a lot for a small company to put out, but the exposure they could receive is huge. This being rumored to be the last year might be beneficial to your cause.
Fees go up again in 2 days. I'll say this again, $1000 cash is a lot, but that is a lot cheaper than prepping a car and racing it. Some companies might want to be involved but aren't willing to shell out the money to race. Just covering entry fees? Cheap. Finding drivers who have prepped cars and the desire to race that aren't already sponsored or registered? Hard.
The media coverage stats for last year are online, and UTV's were seen in two magazines, in one film, on numerous online media sites like this one, and had an entire half hour episode of Destination Polaris dedicated to them.
You might get hear "no" a lot, but you might be surprised, especially if you offer up your codriver spots.
And pit wise, there are enough people going that you should be able to find people to help. We are willing to help anyone.
If I was going to ask people to cover my entry fee? I'd also get them to cover the cost of custom door graphics, and then you should be obligated to purchase all of the media photos of your car, and write press releases for them, both before and after the race.
Good luck! I hope all of you guys get to go.
Fees go up again in 2 days. I'll say this again, $1000 cash is a lot, but that is a lot cheaper than prepping a car and racing it. Some companies might want to be involved but aren't willing to shell out the money to race. Just covering entry fees? Cheap. Finding drivers who have prepped cars and the desire to race that aren't already sponsored or registered? Hard.
The media coverage stats for last year are online, and UTV's were seen in two magazines, in one film, on numerous online media sites like this one, and had an entire half hour episode of Destination Polaris dedicated to them.
You might get hear "no" a lot, but you might be surprised, especially if you offer up your codriver spots.
And pit wise, there are enough people going that you should be able to find people to help. We are willing to help anyone.
If I was going to ask people to cover my entry fee? I'd also get them to cover the cost of custom door graphics, and then you should be obligated to purchase all of the media photos of your car, and write press releases for them, both before and after the race.
Good luck! I hope all of you guys get to go.
American Rock Rods
★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★
And to add to that post? We get maybe a dozen sponsorship requests a year. Sometimes people just want one or two parts for free, with the promise that they will drive around with our stickers on their vehicle. Sometimes it is a blanket request for anything, that is clearly a form letter sent out to multiple companies. More often than not, I get an email from someone who is totally unknown, asking us to build them a full 4400 car, with them promising to campaign it for a few events with our logo on it. Nothing like 18 year olds asking for a $150k vehicle for free. None of the above people get assistance from ARR.
But every now and then? Someone calls, has a solid platform for exposure, sounds professional, and has a solid understanding of ROI. I almost always give them something. I've been bitten one time, but for the most part it works in my favor. It helps if I already know about what they are doing. A big factor is what follows. If they are going to one event only? Probably not good for me. But someone that is going to race a huge event or a series, and then go on to display the car at several other events? That's perfect. Even if I am just an associate sponsor. The promise of event photos is good, because it gives me marketing material. And not blurry cell phone photos. I've given parts to cars on display at Easter Jeep Safari, SEMA, Rally on the Rocks, several random race series and events, etc. Already having other sponsors is a great sign. So if you have ANY type of business contacts, see what you can get from them before you call anyone else. If you call me and have several other sponsors? I'm more likely to help.
Unfortunately for this race, we have three cars entered. I'm not looking for any more exposure. But there are dozens and dozens of other UTV specific parts manufacturers and retailers out there that are not racing.
Hope this isn't getting too off topic.
But every now and then? Someone calls, has a solid platform for exposure, sounds professional, and has a solid understanding of ROI. I almost always give them something. I've been bitten one time, but for the most part it works in my favor. It helps if I already know about what they are doing. A big factor is what follows. If they are going to one event only? Probably not good for me. But someone that is going to race a huge event or a series, and then go on to display the car at several other events? That's perfect. Even if I am just an associate sponsor. The promise of event photos is good, because it gives me marketing material. And not blurry cell phone photos. I've given parts to cars on display at Easter Jeep Safari, SEMA, Rally on the Rocks, several random race series and events, etc. Already having other sponsors is a great sign. So if you have ANY type of business contacts, see what you can get from them before you call anyone else. If you call me and have several other sponsors? I'm more likely to help.
Unfortunately for this race, we have three cars entered. I'm not looking for any more exposure. But there are dozens and dozens of other UTV specific parts manufacturers and retailers out there that are not racing.
Hope this isn't getting too off topic.
We are still going. The company I work for has a booth along with a 4400 and a utv racing. They are my sponser for the dirt riot central series. They have hooked me up all season, but we are a small business and trying to get our name out, so the owners utv, booth, and the 4400 took top priority. Mine is prepped and ready to race, just going to use it as a pre runner for the other cars. I never thought to actually call and ask around. Oh well, I'll have a good time helping in pits like previous years.
American Rock Rods
★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★
I predict that you show up, see the course, and register last minute.
Jeff Knoll
Carrera Performance
At risk of offending I will add my opinion. I might know a thing or two that can shed some light on the subject, but its just my opinion, and in no way speaking for Hammerking. I gave up that right almost three years ago.
The first thing that needs to be understood.
The first year that KOH was advertised Year 2 (not OG13) The race was limited to 43 teams, and we beat people away. It was a brand new sport, there was not even a car built to do the event when it was announced. Shannon Campbell invested in building a car for a sport he had never run.
Year 2 it was limited to 90, and we beat people off with a stick. Every year since it has continued to grow uncontrollably.
What was the best year UTV car count again?
Year 3 Rich Klein promoted a UTV race at KOH. Someone said it takes time to build? Is 5 years enough time and entries are declining not growing.
The 4WD industry embraces KOH, and dedicates marketing budget, effort, and invests in producing products around this event. There are and have been a number of tire companies that have built tires specifically for this race. Do any of you know how nuch money it costs to build a custom compound tire?
The fans buy merchandise by the truck load, and are loyal to the companies that help build the race.
UTV industry? Crickets.
Now that is not all the fault of the UTV industry. The best year IMHO for the UTV race was the year Mike Lasher took the reins and made it his own. He took ownership of the course, and promoted the event. The person leading the charge for UTV's has changed many times over the history of the race.
I even gave it an honest effort with the help of Reid from Kawasaki when I knew nothing about UTV's. (it contributed to my love for UTV's, but I thought they where a joke before Reid introduced me to what they could do.)
Last year Mike was not asked back for what ever reason, and Davin took title sponsorship. I am not sure of any details about last year, and I personally did not participate in any aspect of the UTV race.
This year it appears no one took ownership. Lets face it, Dave has his hands full with the Ultra4 series. It has the backing of the entire industry, has experienced massive global growth, and he has no trouble filling the class.
I know what it costs to add a day of racing during the week of KOH.
You guys are talking about 25-30 cars being good for a utv race. If you want that race to continue you need 50-75 cars, with growth and forward investment. You need industry investment in marketing the format, supporting the racers, and putting money into the event to keep it going. You need a dedicated volunteer who does not mind leading, working for free to build, support, and promote the UTV race. You need volunteers that will work road crossings, check points, and safety. You have none of that.
There is no doubt in my mind that there will be 1000's of UTV's in attendance at KOH, but getting those people to race and participate is a different story. UTV's are the hottest vehicle in the OHV industry, yet 25 cars is a good turn out to race? It does not matter what you race, at KOH your car is getting destroyed, it has nothing to do with the course. Its called racing, and YOU will drive the wheels off the car no matter what if you want to win.
Thats why UTV turn out is low, the people that buy them don't want to destroy them. There are a handful of people that have figured out they are a shit ton of fun to race, and are affordable when compared to other types of off road race vehicles. The problem is the industry has not promoted this properly. The problem is that UTV owners are not willing to volunteer to help build something for themselves.
This is not just a KOH problem, its a SCORE, BITD, WORCS, WHATEVERYOUCALLIT problem.
Simple math, you can't support a race series on 30 cars with low entry fee's and a cash purse. You can't keep asking for volunteers and hear nothing in return. The UTV race at KOH has been subsidized for 5 years now, and if it can't stand on its own, it only make sense to clip it.
Let this be a learning experience for the industry. If you can't grow the events, they are not going to last forever. It takes more than Car count. It take investment from everyone who is involved.
We all have a habit as off roaders of taking more than we give. No matter if its OHV access, events, or promoting our sport. Someone else will do that for me.
Curious Question? How many UTV people bought a wristband last year, made a purchase from a vendor who supported the event, bought a T shirt, or bought food from the burrito or hotdog guy?
How many of you buy from Wildcat Willy, SXS Performance, or PRP because they support events, or do you just go after the low price?
Newsflash guys, its not just the car count.
If you want to save this event, and it can be saved I am guessing, you need a plan, not empty promises, a plan. Dave is a businessman, and he will be more than willing to listen to a proposal that will put a little money and his pocket, and be self sufficient.
OR You just go enjoy the race for what it is and go pre run the course really fast with your buddies next year.
Disclaimer: I am not attending KOH this year, saving my vacation time for something new. Read ARMCHAIR QUARTERBACK.
Have a good day.
Jeff Knoll
The first thing that needs to be understood.
The first year that KOH was advertised Year 2 (not OG13) The race was limited to 43 teams, and we beat people away. It was a brand new sport, there was not even a car built to do the event when it was announced. Shannon Campbell invested in building a car for a sport he had never run.
Year 2 it was limited to 90, and we beat people off with a stick. Every year since it has continued to grow uncontrollably.
What was the best year UTV car count again?
Year 3 Rich Klein promoted a UTV race at KOH. Someone said it takes time to build? Is 5 years enough time and entries are declining not growing.
The 4WD industry embraces KOH, and dedicates marketing budget, effort, and invests in producing products around this event. There are and have been a number of tire companies that have built tires specifically for this race. Do any of you know how nuch money it costs to build a custom compound tire?
The fans buy merchandise by the truck load, and are loyal to the companies that help build the race.
UTV industry? Crickets.
Now that is not all the fault of the UTV industry. The best year IMHO for the UTV race was the year Mike Lasher took the reins and made it his own. He took ownership of the course, and promoted the event. The person leading the charge for UTV's has changed many times over the history of the race.
I even gave it an honest effort with the help of Reid from Kawasaki when I knew nothing about UTV's. (it contributed to my love for UTV's, but I thought they where a joke before Reid introduced me to what they could do.)
Last year Mike was not asked back for what ever reason, and Davin took title sponsorship. I am not sure of any details about last year, and I personally did not participate in any aspect of the UTV race.
This year it appears no one took ownership. Lets face it, Dave has his hands full with the Ultra4 series. It has the backing of the entire industry, has experienced massive global growth, and he has no trouble filling the class.
I know what it costs to add a day of racing during the week of KOH.
You guys are talking about 25-30 cars being good for a utv race. If you want that race to continue you need 50-75 cars, with growth and forward investment. You need industry investment in marketing the format, supporting the racers, and putting money into the event to keep it going. You need a dedicated volunteer who does not mind leading, working for free to build, support, and promote the UTV race. You need volunteers that will work road crossings, check points, and safety. You have none of that.
There is no doubt in my mind that there will be 1000's of UTV's in attendance at KOH, but getting those people to race and participate is a different story. UTV's are the hottest vehicle in the OHV industry, yet 25 cars is a good turn out to race? It does not matter what you race, at KOH your car is getting destroyed, it has nothing to do with the course. Its called racing, and YOU will drive the wheels off the car no matter what if you want to win.
Thats why UTV turn out is low, the people that buy them don't want to destroy them. There are a handful of people that have figured out they are a shit ton of fun to race, and are affordable when compared to other types of off road race vehicles. The problem is the industry has not promoted this properly. The problem is that UTV owners are not willing to volunteer to help build something for themselves.
This is not just a KOH problem, its a SCORE, BITD, WORCS, WHATEVERYOUCALLIT problem.
Simple math, you can't support a race series on 30 cars with low entry fee's and a cash purse. You can't keep asking for volunteers and hear nothing in return. The UTV race at KOH has been subsidized for 5 years now, and if it can't stand on its own, it only make sense to clip it.
Let this be a learning experience for the industry. If you can't grow the events, they are not going to last forever. It takes more than Car count. It take investment from everyone who is involved.
We all have a habit as off roaders of taking more than we give. No matter if its OHV access, events, or promoting our sport. Someone else will do that for me.
Curious Question? How many UTV people bought a wristband last year, made a purchase from a vendor who supported the event, bought a T shirt, or bought food from the burrito or hotdog guy?
How many of you buy from Wildcat Willy, SXS Performance, or PRP because they support events, or do you just go after the low price?
Newsflash guys, its not just the car count.
If you want to save this event, and it can be saved I am guessing, you need a plan, not empty promises, a plan. Dave is a businessman, and he will be more than willing to listen to a proposal that will put a little money and his pocket, and be self sufficient.
OR You just go enjoy the race for what it is and go pre run the course really fast with your buddies next year.
Disclaimer: I am not attending KOH this year, saving my vacation time for something new. Read ARMCHAIR QUARTERBACK.
Have a good day.
Jeff Knoll
Heybeerman
Active Member
Heybeerman
Active Member
Me and two other guys where 100% on board to race but the rules where released late and the cost's kept going up. $1500 in fuel there and back, all the nickel and dime fee's, spare parts etc... Needing an extra camper on the lake bed. The cost is over 3k per person for us to race (Pro class). If I could get a sponser to cover all my entry fee's, I'd be in
You were in 100%? Everything you described would have stayed the same, and did stay the same. The only thing that varied was the late release of the rules. Everyone would be in racing if it were free and easy.
Jeff Knoll
Carrera Performance
Rules did not really change that much in my eyes. It was safe to assume the rules had not changed because HK did not make any announcement they had plans to change them very much. I am all for keeping the rules the same and have been pretty vocal in the past about this subject, but I don't think that is what is making the race lack participation.
I am not a fan of the Rule changes but I am invested in the previous rules that had been used for two years. If anything they are more lenient. IMHO if you don't have an Arctic cat or a Polaris you are pretty much now just an adventure seeker. Why would Kawasaki sponsor a race that does not offer them a competitive class? We could argue just this subject for hours I am sure.
My statement about spending at the event is not meant to be an insult. Its based on what I have heard from a couple UTV vendors who are not returning to KOH this year after lower interest/sales last year than the previous year.
The tire comment is relevant because that industry has embraced an invested in the growth of Ultra4 racing. UTV's not so much.
Bottom line industry needs sales to make it a valuable investment. Race needs industry to make it worthwhile. I stand by my opinion it takes more than car count.
I am not a fan of the Rule changes but I am invested in the previous rules that had been used for two years. If anything they are more lenient. IMHO if you don't have an Arctic cat or a Polaris you are pretty much now just an adventure seeker. Why would Kawasaki sponsor a race that does not offer them a competitive class? We could argue just this subject for hours I am sure.
My statement about spending at the event is not meant to be an insult. Its based on what I have heard from a couple UTV vendors who are not returning to KOH this year after lower interest/sales last year than the previous year.
The tire comment is relevant because that industry has embraced an invested in the growth of Ultra4 racing. UTV's not so much.
Bottom line industry needs sales to make it a valuable investment. Race needs industry to make it worthwhile. I stand by my opinion it takes more than car count.
dkiewicz
Space Cadet - UTVUnderground's La Familia
I agree Jeff. Pretty astute marketing managers right there. Let the general public buy our vehicles, fix them up, beat the crap out of them, see what breaks, then let us read the posts to help our engineers figure out what to fix. This is the Microsoft model. Let all of your users do beta testing after they've shelled out THEIR money. Zero investment for the mfr's aside from reading the forums.
An event like this SHOULD be sponsored by ALL UTV mfr's, it's in their best interest!
But like I said, some real savvy marketing folks, all this exposure and R&D without spending a dime. Good for the shareholders, ya think?
Bottom line, it takes money to race, period. I have an outstanding driver, I just can't afford to put him in a car. Tried Karting, MX etc... Takes $$$$$ and lots of 'em to do it at this level. So, we spectate, support those that can by volunteering and dream....
Heybeerman
Active Member
Blake
