Shock revalving for dummies....

[NYCEGUY01]

Ok guys.

I still havent quite got my shocks where I want them.
Im running Kings with the HCR arms etc.
RZR 800 is the machine.

The guys at King have been great and have valved them in the past for me and not charged me a penny. The shipping is kinda spendy though...

I called them to Inquire about some new adjustable rears and they talked me out of buying new shocks...

I think Im going to just buy some oil, some shims, and a nitrogen tank and have at it.

I think I have this figured out ( at least the basics ) . It looks like the shim stacks are around $15 each. Is there anywhere I can get them cheaper ? Id prefer to have these on hand where I can do it in my trailer instead of try one thickness then come home and order another setup.

It appears that to have enough shims to do just 2 shocks could get expensive especially when most of them will only get used once if at all.

Any suggestions ?

 

[the stripping shop]

king shock are very proud of there shims call foddrills i think he sells them cheaper.

 

[NYCEGUY01]

So far Poly has been the cheapest at $15 a stack.
Looks like for my 2" shocks there are only 5 different stacks ( .8, .10,.12,.15, and .20).
I am pretty sure ( hopefully ) I wont end up using the same size for compression as rebound so that's $150 for enough to do 2 rear shocks.

I know King puts 150#'s of nitrogen in them normally.
If I have the thickest shims and need more compression do I just add a little more Psi ?
And if I do what does more PSI do to Rebound, will I have to put in more dampening for rebound if I run higher nitrogen pressure ?

On the other end can I run a stiffer compression stack and less PSI to tame down the rebound ?

Just trying to get a feel for all of this before I have my machine apart...

Right now I really need more rebound dampening as my RZR likes to buck the rear end up a bit.

 

[Glamisfan]

You can go as low as 100 psi, and as high is 200 psi on the nitrogen. But it's best to stick with the 150 psi. The nitrogen does hardly anything to the dampening. It's mostly to keep the oil from cavitating, or getting air bubbles in it which makes the dampening ineffective. To add more rebound,, you can add another large shim to your valve stack. Go to the Fox website, and look for their valving chart. Let me know if you find it, if not I can post it up when I get home. It shows the different thicknesses of shims, and they give them a number. Like all. 010=70#, .012=90#,etc. It also shows how doubling and even tripling the large shims will affect the valving.

 

[BiggJim]

As steve said. The nitrogen is not to increase decrease dampening. You would probably be better off buying an entire shim kit VS Individual stacks

 

[smiller]

The Fox valving chart is very basic and does not come close to what racers have in their shocks for valving.

First identify what your problem is.(too soft rear rebound)
Second take apart your shock and measure the diameter and thickness of every shim in the problem stack.
Third would be to adjust it in the direction that you need.

You should not have to buy a whole stack of shims to get what you want.

Also I always put 200psi in my shocks. If you need to adjust something you change the stack or if you have clickers adjust those.

 

[c&c rhino]

with any long travel rhino kit, unless the shocks are way long and stood up at close to a 1:1 ratio, i start with 90 rebound and 100 compression per fox chart. then work up from there off the chart. fox shocks of course.

 

[Bajaxp]

The Fox valving chart is very basic and does not come close to what racers have in their shocks for valving.

First identify what your problem is.(too soft rear rebound)
Second take apart your shock and measure the diameter and thickness of every shim in the problem stack.
Third would be to adjust it in the direction that you need.

You should not have to buy a whole stack of shims to get what you want.

Also I always put 200psi in my shocks. If you need to adjust something you change the stack or if you have clickers adjust those.

Very good advice!

 

[NYCEGUY01]

Hmmm..
So you guys are saying to not change the whole stack ?
Just individual shims ? Maybe double up or add just certain ones in the different thicknesses inside the stacks ?

I haven't seen anybody selling individual shims so far, just the stacks of 5 of the 5 different thicknesses.

I know I said I didn't want to spend a bunch here but I think Id rather have several options ready to get this done in a weekend of testing.

I think Im gonna plan a weekend in the desert and find a nice set of whoops and jumps that I can test different shims stacks back to back.

I think once I get the rears perfect I will most likely want to fine tune the fronts.

Ive got a pretty well setup enclosed trailer with everything I could possibly need , at least after I buy a spanner wrench and some soft jaws for the vice.

I think it would be easier to test the same terrain over and over to be able to accurately track changes.

I could also setup my go-pros on tripods to see before and after videos right in the motorhome minutes after a run. I could what it looks like from outside the RZR as well as what it feels like.

Seems like a good enough reason to take out the coach and drink some beer by the fire...lol

 

[smiller]

Both Walker Evans and Fox sell shims. Im not sure if it is only to dealers though. But Getting a whole stack like from Fox would be fine, I just would not swap the complete stack at once.

Lets just say this is your stack and you are having problems with bucking very badly;
1.42x.010x.504 Low speed
1.35x.010x.504 Low speed
1.25x.010x.504 Mid speed
1.1x.012x.504 Mid speed
1.0x.012x.504 High speed
.9x.12x.504 High speed
.8x.12x.504 High speed
Large Rate Plate

I would change to;
1.42x.010x.504
.8x.008x.504
1.42x.012x.504
1.35x.012x.504
1.25x.012x.504
1.1x.015x.504
1.0x.015x.504
.9x.15x.504
.8x.15x.504
Large Rate Plate

 

[c&c rhino]

i buy individual shims from kartek for fox. not sure on kings. you dont have to change the entire stack. use a set of digital calipers, measure each shim, write down the starting shim stacks and update all changes on the list. test....repeat.

 

[AReed]

I'm not sure I would advise someone that's starting to valve shocks to start fluttering the rebound. That's going to get a little complicated at first esp cause .002 thickness too much can make you buck like a wild horse on rebound or blow through travel on the compression side.
ADS makes shocks in AZ and they also use a .625 ID which is what King uses so you may be able to get some shims from them that will work.

 

[Big Guy]

I'm not sure if your shocks have bleeder holes on the pistons if they do you can restrict the flow of oil by simply plugging the holes. The holes are threaded and all you have to do is find a screw that fits. Buy doing this it will slow both rebound and compression. When we went testing with king this was one of the things they did for us.

 

[Makin' Trax]

i buy individual shims from kartek for fox. not sure on kings. you dont have to change the entire stack. use a set of digital calipers, measure each shim, write down the starting shim stacks and update all changes on the list. test....repeat.

I have bought individual shims from Kartek for Kings.

 

[NYCEGUY01]

Well I think I have everything I need on the way.
So most likely next weekend Ill give it hell and try to get this thing to eat up whoops like I know it should.

Its pretty close already so I think Ill be good to go.
Ill start with the rear and then play with the fronts.

 

[NYCEGUY01]

So I think I have a basic understanding here.

If my stack looks like this.
__________ .12
________ .12
______ .12
____ .12
__ .12
And I wanted to soften up the low speed compression for crawling and stiffen up the high speed for the big hits I would go thicker with the smaller shims and thinner with the larger ones.

__________ .08
________ .08
______ .12
____ .20
___ .20

In my mind this would work out basically progressive . The harder the hit the stiffer the shock will act ...

Is this basically correct ?

I know I will need to see whats in there now and make small adjustments till I get where I want.

 

[NYCEGUY01]

Also.

The Flutter stack...

Just to see if I completely understand the concept here.
Compression stack.

__________ .12
___ .08
________ .12
______.12
____.12
__ .12

This would basically keep the same high speed as my 1st example but make the bottom or slow speed substantially softer, more so than even just replacing the largest shim with a .08 due to with nothing backing up the largest shim it will flex easier than the .08 shim would with a full size shim behind it.

Seems to make sense in my head anyway...lol

 

[smiller]

I would not go from 12 to 8 or 12 to 20.

Go 12 to 10 or 12 to 15. Small adjustments do a lot. Also if you are not far off on set up you don't want to make such a big change.

 

[Makin' Trax]

Also.

The Flutter stack...

Just to see if I completely understand the concept here.
Compression stack.

__________ .12
___ .08
________ .12
______.12
____.12
__ .12

This would basically keep the same high speed as my 1st example but make the bottom or slow speed substantially softer, more so than even just replacing the largest shim with a .08 due to with nothing backing up the largest shim it will flex easier than the .08 shim would with a full size shim behind it.

Seems to make sense in my head anyway...lol

instead of adding the .08 between existing .12 on your stack, add the .08 thick x .95 in diameter on top of the stock stack and then add a pair of .10 x 1.30 or a .08 + a .10(same as your largest stock shim diameter) on top. My $.02

 

[NYCEGUY01]

I would not go from 12 to 8 or 12 to 20.

Go 12 to 10 or 12 to 15. Small adjustments do a lot. Also if you are not far off on set up you don't want to make such a big change.

Yes.
I was just making sure the concept I had was correct. I plan on making very small changes and recording and testing.