Miller Canyon Watefall - 7/30 - Group

[JimandMelissa]

I'm posting this in a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the chatter on the main thread.

It's great to see the La Familia growing.

It would seem that it may be time for our ride strategy with a larger group to evolve a bit. With as many radios as we have, I think we should be able to come up with something a little more enjoyable for riders than spending the day in a long line and an endless cloud of dust yet still be available for assistance as needed.

Perhaps sub-groups, more spacing, etc. We've organized some large rides in the past and with a little effort and cooperation the experience can be much more enjoyable for all.

A strategy that's easily scalable to the group size and can be used whenever we need it would be kinda cool.

Let's get some suggestions rolling and see what we can come up with...........

 

[DUNE DUMMY 29]

I'm posting this in a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the chatter on the main thread.

It's great to see the La Familia growing.

It would seem that it may be time for our ride strategy with a larger group to evolve a bit. With as many radios as we have, I think we should be able to come up with something a little more enjoyable for riders than spending the day in a long line and an endless cloud of dust yet still be available for assistance as needed.

Perhaps sub-groups, more spacing, etc. We've organized some large rides in the past and with a little effort and cooperation the experience can be much more enjoyable for all.

A strategy that's easily scalable to the group size and can be used whenever we need it would be kinda cool.

Let's get some suggestions rolling and see what we can come up with...........

GROUPS OF 5 OR 6 VEHICLES LEAVING 10 OR 15 MINUTES APART. STOPPING @ DESIGNATED SPOTS ON THE TRAIL GROUP LEADER & SWEEP IN EACH GROUP WITH A RADIO.

 

[T-wrecks]

It is up to the person in the dust? If you want to suck dust then be my guest, but I always drop back out of it and as long as the person in front stops at intersections with or without a radio, then you get stretched out anyways! If a sub group want s to stop or go some where else as long as you radio or let the leader know I see no problem! You have to keep big groups moving or you will never get there and back! There will always be dust, just don't ride the guy in front of you, that seems pretty basic! I like the idea of everyone being together and being able to help each other and enjoy the same experiences. Put the speeders at the back and they can let up and then hammer it with no problem and also the "Crack the Whip" effect come into play the back always has to go faster to keep up! My fity cent

My thoughts exactly

 

[ageekwithajeep]

I like that idea, like on easter when ciscos group just chilled for 15 mins while the other took off then arrived at the rest stops a little later but were still there with the group that was more fun for me in the jeep

 

[JimandMelissa]

It is up to the person in the dust? If you want to suck dust then be my guest, but I always drop back out of it and as long as the person in front stops at intersections with or without a radio, then you get stretched out anyways! If a sub group want s to stop or go some where else as long as you radio or let the leader know I see no problem! You have to keep big groups moving or you will never get there and back! There will always be dust, just don't ride the guy in front of you, that seems pretty basic! I like the idea of everyone being together and being able to help each other and enjoy the same experiences. Put the speeders at the back and they can let up and then hammer it with no problem and also the "Crack the Whip" effect come into play the back always has to go faster to keep up! My fity cent

Not sure why the condescending response Reed?

Is there no room for improvement or openess to objective feedback and discussion from others which could lead to a better experience for all?

I see problems when riding clean-up on large rides. My hope was to address some of these issues.

 

[onerich]

Jim,Ronnie ,Reed you all have the right idea .Lets kick this around and see what works and whats did't on this ride. It will be dusty for sure but thats off road some times

 

[RZRluvr]

My vote is for a group hug It really doesn't much matter to me what we end up doing as long as everyone that shows up has a great time on the ride and gets back to camp safe
Love you guys

 

[ROTAX]

George, I miss you. There was some man-love going on over on the main Miller Canyon thread, that made me think of you........I love all of you.......man, now I'm tearing up........shi%

 

[Cisco Kid]

I am with Jim, we just need to see if we can improve are riding with big groups.

OK, lets start with a list of problems we know of, you can add on to this list and maybe we can come up with some type of solution or improvment ;-)

1. I know that some peeps do not stop at intersection to wait for the peep behind them to make sure they know where to turn.

2. I know that some peeps don't look back to see if the have peep is behind them al all.

3. I think that some peeps stay real close behind the leader or the peep in front of them, because they don't know the area and don't want to get lost.

4. I know that placing our group with Radios at 5 or 6 cars inbetween is good as they can see the peeps in front and back.
I Think this is where we need to make sure we do our job as " La Familia" not just look out for the peep behind us but aslo the peep in front of us ;-)

5. As "La Familia" I don't think is the peep that put up the ride that has to make sure we all know and do as he plans it, We need to all be part of it. Jump in and help in anything we can, that why we are "La Familia" ;-)

6. Keep it going - Love you all ;-)

 

[lmcarraher]

A MEETING BEFORE THE RIDE ALWAYS HELPS

 

[JimandMelissa]

None was meant! I just know there are those who don't care and when I look back they are right there in the dust! Just stating fact, if you don't want dust slow up and wait at the intersection! Nothing controversial in that We have done 28 or more on this ride with no problems, I just enjoy a group as I said experiencing the same ride! We have always done great and if its not broke why fix it? That's my input

Reed

I would argue that it is broke or at least needs some work to make it better.

On the last Rubicon ride, I was in the second group. At a rest stop, a rider from the first group came down the trail going the wrong way. He said he lost the first group and didn't know where to go so he was going to try and head back to camp. This was well past Hotel Ca and he has never been in this area before. Fortunately we were there to scoop him up. The first group didn't even know he was missing. Losing someone 40miles out in the middle of nowhere should not be acceptable.

On another ride, a member was left to return to camp alone. He ended rolling his rig and was left to get the rig off his foot by himself. Again, fortunately for him, someone came back to camp early and went looking for him.

I'm not saying we need to change the concept of "one group" but we definatelly need work better as a unit when we're out there. That starts with at least discussing strategy and listening to suggestions.

We often have new riders not familiar with large group rides over long distances. We need to make sure they know what to do and look after them.

 

[JimandMelissa]

A MEETING BEFORE THE RIDE ALWAYS HELPS

Good idea - we usually have a drivers meeting before the long rides.

 

[JimandMelissa]

I am with Jim, we just need to see if we can improve are riding with big groups.

OK, lets start with a list of problems we know of, you can add on to this list and maybe we can come up with some type of solution or improvment ;-)

1. I know that some peeps do not stop at intersection to wait for the peep behind them to make sure they know where to turn.

2. I know that some peeps don't look back to see if the have peep is behind them al all.

3. I think that some peeps stay real close behind the leader or the peep in front of them, because they don't know the area and don't want to get lost.

4. I know that placing our group with Radios at 5 or 6 cars inbetween is good as they can see the peeps in front and back.
I Think this is where we need to make sure we do our job as " La Familia" not just look out for the peep behind us but aslo the peep in front of us ;-)

5. As "La Familia" I don't think is the peep that put up the ride that has to make sure we all know and do as he plans it, We need to all be part of it. Jump in and help in anything we can, that why we are "La Familia" ;-)

6. Keep it going - Love you all ;-)

Great points Frank !!!

Maybe a little education would go a long way here. Take the time to talk about how rides work with everyone. Cross training could also help. Let everyone spend time at the front, middle and back of the ride. Seeing what actually happens from different perspectives will help raise awareness of what's going on with the group.

 

[Cisco Kid]

Great points Frank !!!

Maybe a little education would go a long way here. Take the time to talk about how rides work with everyone. Cross training could also help. Let everyone spend time at the front, middle and back of the ride. Seeing what actually happens from different perspectives will help raise awareness of what's going on with the group.

Maybe if we write or a flyer with the information on it, letting them know that if they stop not to worry about getting lost and other information not rules just info. I know some peeps do not pay any attention to our meetings before the ride ;-)

 

[JimandMelissa]

The Little Rubicon ride would always have a drag rider and he would have gotten the guy turned around! What we need is education not the loss of unified command authority! It works for the biggest group on earth, the military it will work for us as long as everyone remembers their responsibilities! Cisco was my drag riders he ended up with a group, not the systems fault, but it worked! Because we didn't have enough radios to put a second drag rider in the spot between Cisco and the main group! If you remember it was a large group and they had some issues and you have to keep it moving! In the end it all worked! All I am saying is if YOU want to experiment that is your right on your ride as you would be the unified central command! If there is s better way it will come to the front, Darwin's Law!

Even the military evolves it strategy. One of the most successful tools is the "after action review" where the actions and outcomes of an event are openly discussed. The most successful leaders are those who have respect for and are willing to listen to input from fellow team members.

 

[DUNE DUMMY 29]

90% OF THE TIME JENNE & I RUN SWEEP. IT IS ALWAYS DUSTY BUT THE REWARDS OF HELPING OUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE PROBLEMS IS REWARDING. WE CAN ALWAYS IMPROVE ON WHAT WE DO. DISCUSSION IS A GOOD THING & WE ALL SHOULD BE OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS. OUR RIDES HAVE BEEN THE BEST ORGANIZED, WELL PLANNED & MOST OF ALL SAFEST OF ANY I HAVE BEEN ON. THERE CAN ALWAYS BE IMPROVEMENTS SO LETS TALK. DEFINITELY GETTING PEOPLE TO WATCH OUT FOR THE PERSON IN FRONT OF THEM & THE ONE BEHIND THEM IS THE FIRST THING WE NEED TO GET RIDERS TO UNDERSTAND.

 

[lmcarraher]

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[Cisco Kid]

The most useful thing that can be done on big rides is to Identify yourself of the sign up list if you have a radio and are willing to help! Then the person who's ride it is can copy the list and print it out! That way each person can have a copy and know who is who so they can be assigned! If they don't show you mark them off! Then if you have enough radios you can scatter them throughout the column! Then if you wanted the TB can mark there position on his master list! Then when some one calls they ID themselves and you know their position in the column! Then you can decide where you are and the best place to park the group that will accommodate the group size and whether there will be a turn around or a wait! A list printed out is a good thing anyway!

I like this and maybe add to this ;-)

How about putting some type of ribbon (color to be selected) on the peeps rides that want to help and have radios, then we can let all the peeps know that they can look for them if they need any help ;-)

 

[Cisco Kid]

DD, you never watch out for the person in front, other than making sure you don't run over them, you're task loading that driver too much! They can't stop for the ones behind and you want them to multitask? If you can just get the simple point of YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PERSON BEHIND YOU ONLY the person in front will stop at an intersection and the person behind will not worry about losing them or the dust Sweep does not mean you get dusty! I don't because I drop back to sweep! As long as I have communication with the group or the guy in front waits until he sees me all is good! I in fact like to have two sweepers with radios so the second to last guy doesn't have to wait because they have communications! Control and Command is the end result of 5000 years of war studies! You can't lead by consensuses, you have to lead, evaluate, learn, and implement! But it has to be under one command! That's why Obama is a failure, he is no leader!

Well I do keep a look out the peep in front and I let a radio call if he has gone off in a diffrent direction or stop my group behine me and go after that peep ;-)

 

[Bagman]

I think we should consider the strays the natural selection process of thinning the herd.