Is Yamaha better at track/short course than Polaris?

[Slate]

Opinions aside, Yamaha placed in the top 3 spots a few weekends ago at TORC in the Pro Stock class. I noted this on the other thread for that race but received no replies so I figured I'd start another thread here.

Any reasoning why Yamaha took the top 3 spots in Pro Stock?

Are top Polaris drivers moving to Pro Mod? Is the manual transmission of the Yamaha that much more efficient in the relatively straight short course? The tight woods courses in the south still seem to be dominated by CVT. I'm curious to see how desert racing will treat the Yamahas once we see more entries.

Personally, I'm looking to get into offroad racing in the next year or so. I can't buy a new machine each year and I'd really like to invest time into working on a single machine without worrying about having to buy an entire new machine every couple of years to keep a competitive edge. Primarily I'm looking at entering into TORC but I'd like to build the machine into something that with some quick part swaps be able to switch between races.

Thoughts?

 

[JoeyD23]

Opinions aside, Yamaha placed in the top 3 spots a few weekends ago at TORC in the Pro Stock class. I noted this on the other thread for that race but received no replies so I figured I'd start another thread here.

Any reasoning why Yamaha took the top 3 spots in Pro Stock?

Are top Polaris drivers moving to Pro Mod? Is the manual transmission of the Yamaha that much more efficient in the relatively straight short course? The tight woods courses in the south still seem to be dominated by CVT. I'm curious to see how desert racing will treat the Yamahas once we see more entries.

Personally, I'm looking to get into offroad racing in the next year or so. I can't buy a new machine each year and I'd really like to invest time into working on a single machine without worrying about having to buy an entire new machine every couple of years to keep a competitive edge. Primarily I'm looking at entering into TORC but I'd like to build the machine into something that with some quick part swaps be able to switch between races.

Thoughts?

Here is my take.

In short, YES, the Yamaha is a better Lucas / TORC style short course vehicle.

Why? Transmission is #1. A GOOD driver, with track time and seat time will be able to always live in the proper RPM / gear and should have much better entrance & exit speeds because of that. The manual is much better than the CVT in this type of racing.

The RZR is arguably a better all-around machine from the standpoint that it has better suspension and produces what most think is actually better power. BUT, it takes a really bad ass driver, with a really good set up in the realm of tire, clutch and suspension to run with the top guys in Yamaha's.

Myles Cheek did sweep the weekend in his RZR at the last Lucas Oil Regional and he was going against some of the best short course drivers out there. He has also done well at the national and took home a UTVUG fast lap award at the last national round.

While the RZR does have superior suspension, these tracks rarely ever require you to use a lot of it. There are only a couple "big" jumps in this type of racing and even the sketchy mogul / rythem sections seem to be getting fewer and fewer. Hell, most RZR guys even cut their shocks down to limit their travel because of that reason and to help keep the wheels on the ground. Anti-roll is another factory I guess with that.

In the end, you take the best short course RZR with a seasoned driver against the best short course Yamaha with a seasoned driver and you will have a neck and neck race to the finish. But I would give the yamaha the edge for this type of racing for sure.

 

[Team Green]

Wait, You are asking a question but you want us to put our opinions aside?

My opinion is if you are thinking about getting into racing you better be prepared to get a new machine at least every other year. The way these UTV's are evolving whatever is good today is going to obsolete tomorrow. This is racing so buy what you want and have fun. If you are on a budget buy something used but be prepared to get beat by newer units.

 

[Slate]

Here is my take.

In short, YES, the Yamaha is a better Lucas / TORC style short course vehicle.

Why? Transmission is #1. A GOOD driver, with track time and seat time will be able to always live in the proper RPM / gear and should have much better entrance & exit speeds because of that. The manual is much better than the CVT in this type of racing.

The RZR is arguably a better all-around machine from the standpoint that it has better suspension and produces what most think is actually better power. BUT, it takes a really bad ass driver, with a really good set up in the realm of tire, clutch and suspension to run with the top guys in Yamaha's.

Myles Cheek did sweep the weekend in his RZR at the last Lucas Oil Regional and he was going against some of the best short course drivers out there. He has also done well at the national and took home a UTVUG fast lap award at the last national round.

While the RZR does have superior suspension, these tracks rarely ever require you to use a lot of it. There are only a couple "big" jumps in this type of racing and even the sketchy mogul / rythem sections seem to be getting fewer and fewer. Hell, most RZR guys even cut their shocks down to limit their travel because of that reason and to help keep the wheels on the ground. Anti-roll is another factory I guess with that.

In the end, you take the best short course RZR with a seasoned driver against the best short course Yamaha with a seasoned driver and you will have a neck and neck race to the finish. But I would give the yamaha the edge for this type of racing for sure.

Thanks for breaking this down a bit. TORC is local to me so it seems like it'll be easy to break into with not as much investment. Once I have a little more wrench time my dream is to transition into SRRS and Desert Racing like BITD, Mint 400 and Vegas to Reno.

Wait, You are asking a question but you want us to put our opinions aside?

My opinion is if you are thinking about getting into racing you better be prepared to get a new machine at least every other year. The way these UTV's are evolving whatever is good today is going to obsolete tomorrow. This is racing so buy what you want and have fun. If you are on a budget buy something used but be prepared to get beat by newer units.

I suppose I may have written that poorly. I meant opinions aside Yamaha is the most winningest at TORC right now. But I'd like to hear your opinions combined with facts (not just fan boyism -- which there is already plenty of) on why.

 

[ROTAX]

I agree with Joey, X3 is best platform for this kinda racing.....

 

[BiggJim]

In my opinion...the only reason that you dont see a polaris on the box anymore at Lucas Oil type events is based on the way the rules are written. Yamaha left power on the table so adding a pipe and such that are in the rules make way bigger gains that a pipe and such on the polaris. You have to go into a polaris engine to get the gains that you can get out of simple bolt ons with the yamaha.

So working within the written rules I think the yamaha is likely the better tool for the job.

Trust me when I tell you if we could have added some more power to our L/O car last year that Brad Deberti Fielded it would have been a different outcome at any given race.

 

[zambo]

The a-arms in the rear are probably better for short course racing while the trailing link cars will do better in the desert.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tatum]

In my opinion...the only reason that you dont see a polaris on the box anymore at Lucas Oil type events is based on the way the rules are written. Yamaha left power on the table so adding a pipe and such that are in the rules make way bigger gains that a pipe and such on the polaris. You have to go into a polaris engine to get the gains that you can get out of simple bolt ons with the yamaha.

So working within the written rules I think the yamaha is likely the better tool for the job.

Trust me when I tell you if we could have added some more power to our L/O car last year that Brad Deberti Fielded it would have been a different outcome at any given race.

Generally speaking the 3 cyl 1000cc is going to be able to pump out more HP than the 2 cyl but is going to make the power differently. There are advantages to both and Polaris can certainly introduce a new NA model with more HP. (they have been leaving HP on the table for years).The Yamaha has an advantage with the manual as long as you have the skill set to drive it. Polaris is getting a weight break and that is a nice advantage when turning, the trailing arm not so much.

 

[fortune46x]

Owning multiple cars (yxz, old wildcat, and having a next gen cat of sorts) I'll chime in here.

The Yxz is a great car if you're a good driver. Its a glorified sr1 really. The Yxz has its weak points - frames,stock suspension valving, oem clutch setup is a joke. but is a blast to drive. it does have a substantial learning curve however to learn how to make it rip. It has a crazy high ratio to carry speed up to higher levels and on a longer track that is huge - the back straight away at crandon most CVT cars were maxed out.

The Cvt cars take alot of prep , testing and setup to get it right. the biggest overlooked thing at TORC is clutching - you're not going to buy a "kit" and have it be a one size fits all type deal. ERX was a prime example of that, the guys like Ronnie Anderson had it figured out and you watched him on top of CJ's car. I can tell you on our wildcat we struggled to get the speed out of it we were after last year at crandon - we had all the hp in the world but the clutches were too small limiting our top speed. We also dropped our ride height crazy low and took out a large amount of the travel. We would outrun cars in the switch backs of the track but where it came to wide open sections they would catch us - I know we were super light back then too shedding a large amount of weight off the cat - even with the supercharger we were under the 1450 rule for 2017

The X3 while it is a powerhouse has so much weight its ridiculous. its coming across the scales in pro mod at 1900+ lbs while the other cars are limited to 1450 and coming across closer to that number. You may have a lot of power there but your power/weight ratio is thrown out the window and while the travel numbers are huge on the car , its not enough to compensate for the power to weight factor on a short course. It takes a great driver to overcome that. Also the two top x3's fought cooling issues all weekend with a dual radiator setup even. just food for thought. The prime example of why the Yamaha won is the Yamaha was over 300lbs lighter than the x3... Power to weight is key and is overlooked because people tend to pound off over hp numbers.

Looking forward -

Textron is coming with a car that has clutches bigger than anything else out there with a similar motor to the yxz and is built pretty much for short course

Polaris I'm sure has something coming.

Canam keeps throwing things out there like its going out of style, and who knows if anyone else will come to the table at this time.

You're best off to find a car that fits your driving style , and start tinkering with it now and dont overthink it - if you're in Minnesota native I'd jump into racing the Thursday night races at ERX and get your feet wet - it provides a great area to learn and build your skills before hitting TORC

 

[Slate]

Owning multiple cars (yxz, old wildcat, and having a next gen cat of sorts) I'll chime in here.

The Yxz is a great car if you're a good driver. Its a glorified sr1 really. The Yxz has its weak points - frames,stock suspension valving, oem clutch setup is a joke. but is a blast to drive. it does have a substantial learning curve however to learn how to make it rip. It has a crazy high ratio to carry speed up to higher levels and on a longer track that is huge - the back straight away at crandon most CVT cars were maxed out.

The Cvt cars take alot of prep , testing and setup to get it right. the biggest overlooked thing at TORC is clutching - you're not going to buy a "kit" and have it be a one size fits all type deal. ERX was a prime example of that, the guys like Ronnie Anderson had it figured out and you watched him on top of CJ's car. I can tell you on our wildcat we struggled to get the speed out of it we were after last year at crandon - we had all the hp in the world but the clutches were too small limiting our top speed. We also dropped our ride height crazy low and took out a large amount of the travel. We would outrun cars in the switch backs of the track but where it came to wide open sections they would catch us - I know we were super light back then too shedding a large amount of weight off the cat - even with the supercharger we were under the 1450 rule for 2017

The X3 while it is a powerhouse has so much weight its ridiculous. its coming across the scales in pro mod at 1900+ lbs while the other cars are limited to 1450 and coming across closer to that number. You may have a lot of power there but your power/weight ratio is thrown out the window and while the travel numbers are huge on the car , its not enough to compensate for the power to weight factor on a short course. It takes a great driver to overcome that. Also the two top x3's fought cooling issues all weekend with a dual radiator setup even. just food for thought. The prime example of why the Yamaha won is the Yamaha was over 300lbs lighter than the x3... Power to weight is key and is overlooked because people tend to pound off over hp numbers.

Looking forward -

Textron is coming with a car that has clutches bigger than anything else out there with a similar motor to the yxz and is built pretty much for short course

Polaris I'm sure has something coming.

Canam keeps throwing things out there like its going out of style, and who knows if anyone else will come to the table at this time.

You're best off to find a car that fits your driving style , and start tinkering with it now and dont overthink it - if you're in Minnesota native I'd jump into racing the Thursday night races at ERX and get your feet wet - it provides a great area to learn and build your skills before hitting TORC

I am in Northern WI but ERX would be a doable drive, albeit 5-6 hours away. I'll look more into their Thursday night races -- I don't see anything on their website. Maybe Crandon has something similar. That'd be only 2 hours away.

It sounds like maybe I'm going to have to expect to have multiple cars for different types of racing rather than one that I can tweak between seasons.

I might just buy a RZR XP Turbo and tinker around with it without investing more than a few thousand into it as long as I can have fun at some races with it. If I'm spending over $50k and working on it day in and day out for a year or more, I'd really like it to last for a while. I want to have fun, spending money should be the boring part.

 

[bluediamond]

I am in Northern WI but ERX would be a doable drive, albeit 5-6 hours away. I'll look more into their Thursday night races -- I don't see anything on their website. Maybe Crandon has something similar. That'd be only 2 hours away.

It sounds like maybe I'm going to have to expect to have multiple cars for different types of racing rather than one that I can tweak between seasons.

I might just buy a RZR XP Turbo and tinker around with it without investing more than a few thousand into it as long as I can have fun at some races with it. If I'm spending over $50k and working on it day in and day out for a year or more, I'd really like it to last for a while. I want to have fun, spending money should be the boring part.

If it were me I would hold off on the new car for just a bit longer. I know easier said than done. I would be waiting for the new XP to be released and also the New Textron car. Both are rumored to be bad ass and well worth the wait. You will be bumbed out if those two models come out and you just stuck a bunch of money in an Xp and it's still not as fast and well handling as the stock version of either of these two new cars.