Wes Miller 1988
New Member
Here's my race report from this year's Baja 1000.
Wes Miller #1988 Baja 1000 Race Report
- Thread starter Wes Miller 1988
- Start date
george.felix
George
$64,000 question......what broke?
It'sYourLegacy
Banned Por Vida
...sounds like a whole bunch of things given their recovery Rzr being parted out.
Whether these guys are willing to discuss what is most important to us or not (our own machine's actual detailed weaknesses brought to light in real world scenarios) I respect those who at least have the decency to post up here (afterwards) whether they are trying to sell us anything or not.
We had the same unwillingness to simply 'throw a bone' to the (peon) fans supporting these machines (not to mention aftermarket companies) the last time around when overall real time Baja coverage was questioned. At least some of them (then) 'got it' and managed to (quickly 'find religion' then) post 'something' up here so that the 1900 class 2015 season didn't at least 'appear' to be the smoke and mirrors fiasco that it has become.
I have bought parts from at least two or three of these race teams over time and never will again as I'm sick of hearing a post race commercial for everybody who supported these guys YET receiving absolutely nothing or even the slightest of 'news' in return.
If you aren't proud of how your parts hold up, won't sell us the ones which do or feel that 1900 class racing fans aren't worth your time (afterwards)? There are plenty of guys out there either selling (as often turns out) the same parts that you don't want to talk about actually holding up in Baja...or better. Some of you guys have turned your 'race proven' factory supported/aftermarket business in to: "what can I source for the absolute minimum to pass it off as if we raced the peninsula with it?".
Thanks for taking the time out of your busy day to support those who support you, Mr. Miller.
Perhaps a few others reading this (Polaris included) should start realizing which side their bread is (and always has been) indeed buttered on.
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Wes Miller 1988
New Member
George, thanks for pulling to the side right away when we caught you. I appreciate that. We are still trying to figure out exactly what and why things broke and in what order.
Wes Miller 1988
New Member
I'm not even sure how much of this is directed at me, but I will at least address a few of the comments.
1. I do not go on this forum that often. I posted the race report so that fans that are interested would have the opportunity to hear about the race from our team's perspective.
2. I didn't specify on what broke for several reasons. We are still assessing what broke, why, and in what order. We had several issues that slowed us and eventually led to us pulling out of the race. Until I know exactly what happened, I don't like to discuss it. That said, I am supported by numerous companies that put a lot of time and effort into their products. I generally won't say anything about someone's products unless I have a positive comment.
3. I'm not trying to sell anyone anything on here. I don't own or operate a dealership or aftermarket company. I am proud of the products that we run on the car and believe we had one of the best cars in the race. I race to win and have the results to back that up. I would never run products on my race car that I didn't believe gave me the best chance to win.
4. Whether you are into racing or not, many of the products that make their way to the general public are first developed in racing applications. Countless hours are spent testing and developing products for racing and in the end, the public benefits. If you like innovation, you should appreciate racing.
5. In response to me being too busy to support those who support me, do you even know me or anything about me? In all my year's of racing and running H-Bomb Films, I have done numerous things to give back to my fans and supporters. I have always made it a point to be approachable and friendly.
6. In the end, I posted the report for people's entertainment. If you don't like it, it is pretty simple. Don't read it.
My Bread is buttered by my commercial realestate Impire !! but I do like to share and even sell products we develop and test thru racing ! and I will share the bad with the good if it dont work Im happy to say it first ..
It'sYourLegacy
Banned Por Vida
QUOTE="Wes Miller 1988, post: 187707, member: 14736"]I'm not even sure how much of this is directed at me, but I will at least address a few of the comments.
1. I do not go on this forum that often. I posted the race report so that fans that are interested would have the opportunity to hear about the race from our team's perspective.
2. I didn't specify on what broke for several reasons. We are still assessing what broke, why, and in what order. We had several issues that slowed us and eventually led to us pulling out of the race. Until I know exactly what happened, I don't like to discuss it. That said, I am supported by numerous companies that put a lot of time and effort into their products. I generally won't say anything about someone's products unless I have a positive comment.
3. I'm not trying to sell anyone anything on here. I don't own or operate a dealership or aftermarket company. I am proud of the products that we run on the car and believe we had one of the best cars in the race. I race to win and have the results to back that up. I would never run products on my race car that I didn't believe gave me the best chance to win.
4. Whether you are into racing or not, many of the products that make their way to the general public are first developed in racing applications. Countless hours are spent testing and developing products for racing and in the end, the public benefits. If you like innovation, you should appreciate racing.
5. In response to me being too busy to support those who support me, do you even know me or anything about me? In all my year's of racing and running H-Bomb Films, I have done numerous things to give back to my fans and supporters. I have always made it a point to be approachable and friendly.
6. In the end, I posted the report for people's entertainment. If you don't like it, it is pretty simple. Don't read it.[/QUOTE]
Nobody directed anything to you and in fact made great strides to project just the opposite to you for posting what nobody else would for the fans in any detail. Being offended for the rest of the class choosing to do just the opposite for their fans that you so graciously offered us is your choice. Saying that you won't generally say anything about someone's products unless you have a positive comment is your prerogative and helps us in not expecting to determine in any detail as to what aftermarket or OEM parts fail (or why) in these iconic races. Most anybody who owns a N/A XP1000 realizes that it'll never last long without many of the same parts (now) being raced in the desert as future expenditures. They also realize that they're not buying exactly what is being raced in many cases (and that is simply a fact). Racers who are honest as to what broke and why become fan favorites when considering the smoke and mirrors unorganized mess that this class has become (you'd think that this dog and pony show was akin to NASCAR with the overall lack of info being intentionally held back).
We (the fans) 'currently' support the manufacturers/racers/aftermarket companies/promoters (and their families) despite many (not all) of the latter acting as if the 1900 class is nothing but their personal egotistical playground. We're tired of the coverage (or lack thereof), the mid-season rule changes and the complete disregard for the rules themselves affecting the overall legitimization of both the sport and the season championship.
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It'sYourLegacy
Banned Por Vida
..the above is why (at the very east) I will be voting with my dollars when it comes to those who choose not to give us even so much as 'token' race reports when all other coverage of even major races fails the(ir) fans.
One would think that many privateers would fill that gap given how easy this is to do and their not being worried(?) that manufacturers will penalize them for simply telling the truth.
We don't expect these things to hold up to the Baja right out of the box. We WOULD like to know (given that many of us will never replace a minimum forget-the-bling $30,000 investment just to not break down in the desert) what 'might' break when we simply pilot them (even once in a while) to their full potential.
What we're looking for is real time information before the next generation model comes out and you guys all move on to the 'next' exclusive he-man-fan-haters-club (probably too old of a reference for some of you) sandbox on the current (fantasy) 'playground' consisting of little but you and the manufacturers/aftermarket.
Again, those who willingly (thankfully) throw the unwashed masses 'a bone' after these long iconic races can choose to be offended by the above sad realities of this sport or to be a peon fan supporter in this regard. I'm simply saying that I've seen enough of the attitudes surrounding those who arrogantly expect our supportive dollars for doing absolutely nothing for the fans or the very minimum at best.
One would think that many privateers would fill that gap given how easy this is to do and their not being worried(?) that manufacturers will penalize them for simply telling the truth.
We don't expect these things to hold up to the Baja right out of the box. We WOULD like to know (given that many of us will never replace a minimum forget-the-bling $30,000 investment just to not break down in the desert) what 'might' break when we simply pilot them (even once in a while) to their full potential.
What we're looking for is real time information before the next generation model comes out and you guys all move on to the 'next' exclusive he-man-fan-haters-club (probably too old of a reference for some of you) sandbox on the current (fantasy) 'playground' consisting of little but you and the manufacturers/aftermarket.
Again, those who willingly (thankfully) throw the unwashed masses 'a bone' after these long iconic races can choose to be offended by the above sad realities of this sport or to be a peon fan supporter in this regard. I'm simply saying that I've seen enough of the attitudes surrounding those who arrogantly expect our supportive dollars for doing absolutely nothing for the fans or the very minimum at best.
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george.felix
George
So my experience is anything can wear out or break.....not every issue is directly related to racing. Some of the issues average Joe's have I've had and others not a problem at all. So here are the things I believe are random or related to the specific car since Polaris QC is all over the place. This is what we experienced after a little more than a year of racing the car. 2600mi
Carrier bearing - no issues
Stator - replaced one believe it was just random
Voltage Regulator - no issues
Electronic steering and throttle - no issues
Drive Line - no issues but a little floppy after a year of racing so replaced u joints with Koyo greaseable
Exhaust - no issues
ECU - no issues
Radiator/fan and cooling system - no issues
Motor no issues....one fuel injector and replaced fuel rail before it leaked (preventative)
Transmission - no issues but changed the bearings to Ceramic and 200 miles lost the input bearing. Changed to Koyo bearings and no issues after 350 mi. Installed Air Dam clutch support brace (I think a good idea to take the load off the bearing)
Front Diff - Changed sprague and springs
Rear bearing carriers - no issues
Front spindles - no issues
Wheel bearings has been a crap shoot. Brand new Oem sometimes not tight so I only use Koyo from All Balls. Less expensive and seem to be better quality. I check wheel movement frequently and surprisingly with all the silt etc they seem to last a while but its random. Every now and then I get a wobbler.
Wicked Bilt steering box has not been a problem and I like the heavy duty rod ends. I drill the spindle out to 1/2" and use a plain old grade 8 bolt. Never broke a bolt and doubt I ever will. The new ends are 3/4" so I use a 3/4 x 1/2' brass bushing so I don't have to drill the spindle out to 3/4". That just sounds too big but might have enough meat still.....idk.
Axles are always an issue. Turner are heavy axles and maybe not necessary for desert car. However, the cv is heavy duty too which is the reason I use them and support is local here in Houston. Turner changed the grease they use and seems to be ok. However, if you thrash the car and the cv is working hard at a steep angle I'm not sure if there is a cv that will last under those conditions.
Clutch - no problems just replace springs every race or every other race. Dirty Dawg has been great help. Running a bilge blower helps in slow speed silt but imo the best cooling is the Starting Line 2" grommet screens to vent out the heat. We have air intake high on the roof of the car and it blows crazy air without a light bar. The air flow over the roof seems to start at about 3-4" above the deck so anything low isn't going to catch much air.....at least on our car. We use Gates C-12 belts and unless we smoke one driving in high when we should be in low then they last a race. Using a clutch alignment tool helps too.
Lone Star suspension haven't bent anything except when I rolled the car. On all 4 wheels no issues. The Spherical take a pounding and the uniballs need to be checked but they last a good while. Control arms Delrin bushings are good.
Attachment points- we have weld washers on the chassis at all the attachment points that we can including the radius rods to the chassis. We also have 12 mm bolts wherever we can. 12.9 grade and don't have to change them like we did the 10.9 grade10mm. I was seeing bolts bent after most races but never broke one. Still a pain in the ass to change all the bolts every race.
Sway bar we have is Shock Therapy and works good but sheared off the attachment plate on the chassis. We use a UTV Inc support to keep it from flexing back and forth. A bitch to install the clamps but it can be done. We need to shim the sway bar clamps because they were putting too much pressure on the neoprene bushing and the bar was too tight. Now we have to take the bar off to grease it. Don't like this. If you have access thru the firewall then it wouldn't be so bad. I THINK THE REINFORCING THE SWAY BAR ATTACHMENT TO THE CAR IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY OR IT WILL BREAK OFF EVENTUALLY. Utv Inc part is an easy bolt on fix. This is the second time I've said it and I don't even have gotten a sticker out of the deal but I think it works.
Front Sway bar reduces body roll. Nelson and Nelson works good but there are others......LSR I think has one.
Skid Plate- We almost put a rock thru our trans so we installed a 3/16" hardened steel plate over the vitals. Heavier than plastic or alum but I never worry about rocks down the middle of the car. With a lesser plate it dented into the factory support and almost pushed it into the trans. Just the impact on the skid plate transferred into the factory plate then into the trans case could jack up your trans imo.
Wheels- Used Sti and they are junk! Changed to Method and they are a great value and racer quality for a good price.
Brakes- no issues other than don't buy cheapo brake pads. Rocky Mountain has good pads for 50% of the cost of OEM. The biggest factor with pads is the abrasive silt wearing them out not stopping the car.
Shocks - Still working on the Fox 2.5 and 3.0 internal bypass. No way they work right out of the box but way better than stock Walker Evans set up but not being in love with our set up I can't say what the answer is. I know some like the WE after rework. Radflo also has some good reviews.
I'm sure I miss a lot of stuff but thats what this Joe Schmo has experienced......don't know if it helps.
Carrier bearing - no issues
Stator - replaced one believe it was just random
Voltage Regulator - no issues
Electronic steering and throttle - no issues
Drive Line - no issues but a little floppy after a year of racing so replaced u joints with Koyo greaseable
Exhaust - no issues
ECU - no issues
Radiator/fan and cooling system - no issues
Motor no issues....one fuel injector and replaced fuel rail before it leaked (preventative)
Transmission - no issues but changed the bearings to Ceramic and 200 miles lost the input bearing. Changed to Koyo bearings and no issues after 350 mi. Installed Air Dam clutch support brace (I think a good idea to take the load off the bearing)
Front Diff - Changed sprague and springs
Rear bearing carriers - no issues
Front spindles - no issues
Wheel bearings has been a crap shoot. Brand new Oem sometimes not tight so I only use Koyo from All Balls. Less expensive and seem to be better quality. I check wheel movement frequently and surprisingly with all the silt etc they seem to last a while but its random. Every now and then I get a wobbler.
Wicked Bilt steering box has not been a problem and I like the heavy duty rod ends. I drill the spindle out to 1/2" and use a plain old grade 8 bolt. Never broke a bolt and doubt I ever will. The new ends are 3/4" so I use a 3/4 x 1/2' brass bushing so I don't have to drill the spindle out to 3/4". That just sounds too big but might have enough meat still.....idk.
Axles are always an issue. Turner are heavy axles and maybe not necessary for desert car. However, the cv is heavy duty too which is the reason I use them and support is local here in Houston. Turner changed the grease they use and seems to be ok. However, if you thrash the car and the cv is working hard at a steep angle I'm not sure if there is a cv that will last under those conditions.
Clutch - no problems just replace springs every race or every other race. Dirty Dawg has been great help. Running a bilge blower helps in slow speed silt but imo the best cooling is the Starting Line 2" grommet screens to vent out the heat. We have air intake high on the roof of the car and it blows crazy air without a light bar. The air flow over the roof seems to start at about 3-4" above the deck so anything low isn't going to catch much air.....at least on our car. We use Gates C-12 belts and unless we smoke one driving in high when we should be in low then they last a race. Using a clutch alignment tool helps too.
Lone Star suspension haven't bent anything except when I rolled the car. On all 4 wheels no issues. The Spherical take a pounding and the uniballs need to be checked but they last a good while. Control arms Delrin bushings are good.
Attachment points- we have weld washers on the chassis at all the attachment points that we can including the radius rods to the chassis. We also have 12 mm bolts wherever we can. 12.9 grade and don't have to change them like we did the 10.9 grade10mm. I was seeing bolts bent after most races but never broke one. Still a pain in the ass to change all the bolts every race.
Sway bar we have is Shock Therapy and works good but sheared off the attachment plate on the chassis. We use a UTV Inc support to keep it from flexing back and forth. A bitch to install the clamps but it can be done. We need to shim the sway bar clamps because they were putting too much pressure on the neoprene bushing and the bar was too tight. Now we have to take the bar off to grease it. Don't like this. If you have access thru the firewall then it wouldn't be so bad. I THINK THE REINFORCING THE SWAY BAR ATTACHMENT TO THE CAR IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY OR IT WILL BREAK OFF EVENTUALLY. Utv Inc part is an easy bolt on fix. This is the second time I've said it and I don't even have gotten a sticker out of the deal but I think it works.
Front Sway bar reduces body roll. Nelson and Nelson works good but there are others......LSR I think has one.
Skid Plate- We almost put a rock thru our trans so we installed a 3/16" hardened steel plate over the vitals. Heavier than plastic or alum but I never worry about rocks down the middle of the car. With a lesser plate it dented into the factory support and almost pushed it into the trans. Just the impact on the skid plate transferred into the factory plate then into the trans case could jack up your trans imo.
Wheels- Used Sti and they are junk! Changed to Method and they are a great value and racer quality for a good price.
Brakes- no issues other than don't buy cheapo brake pads. Rocky Mountain has good pads for 50% of the cost of OEM. The biggest factor with pads is the abrasive silt wearing them out not stopping the car.
Shocks - Still working on the Fox 2.5 and 3.0 internal bypass. No way they work right out of the box but way better than stock Walker Evans set up but not being in love with our set up I can't say what the answer is. I know some like the WE after rework. Radflo also has some good reviews.
I'm sure I miss a lot of stuff but thats what this Joe Schmo has experienced......don't know if it helps.
dezertBandito
Member
I'm not sure what crawled up itsyourlegacy but thank you for the race report it was a great read, including or excluding any details he may be upset about. These race reports in my opinion are for entertainment not for product research so I don't know why it's so serious..
It'sYourLegacy
Banned Por Vida
It gets to the point where you have to thank somebody (as I have done with Wes) multiple times to get a contrary opinion across in this day and age..yet still walk in to the conversation as if everybody needs a 'safe zone' or something like these kids evidently need now on college campuses. It's as if most under, say, '50' are so accustomed to being praised (or praising themselves) for near everything that anything contrary containing praise (as well) is...I'm guessing here...'overload'.
It helps and is much appreciated. Probably the first honest assessment of a racing season that I've ever witnessed concerning equipment used. A lot of us out here hang on every word when it comes to what works on these lightly built cars whether it is race related or not. If that isn't the (traditional) definition of a race fan then I'm probably too old to appreciate what racing (of any kind) has evidently morphed in to with machines this expensive and so much more needed to make them even so much as dependable (only).
Perhaps a large(r) number of these younger owners simply have a lot more cash on hand than many of us did at their age...and it definitely shows (to me at least) in more ways than one.
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BiggJim
I Hate Rules - UTVUnderground Approved
I wouldnt say its real expensive to make theses car dependable....its can be expensive to keep them at the top level of competition.
It'sYourLegacy
Banned Por Vida
Therein lies the chasm between those blessed to be associated with racing more closely and the majority of us out here who aren't..simple differences of opinion that shouldn't degrade in to anything more.
I look at the thousands that (I feel) I have 'had' to put in to my car just to dependably tackle (recreationally vs stupidly) whatever extended journey I might put it through. That expensive list of spares, beefed up replacement parts and/or modifications needing be performed involving a poorly engineered XP aren't even an afterthought to most racers. We don't need a turbo or Fox shocks. We needed the already available engineering (or more accurately bean counting) in '14 and before that now give 'others' serviceable clutches and drivelines even close to what a company would be proud of offering with that much HP/torque.
The above is why lists such as the one George just provided us or even 'clues' as to what might not necessarily be holding up in even the most ridiculous of tortures are so valuable to the average fan out there. As the only other racer here to give a Baja report offered recently (and I'm paraphrasing):
"Yeah, i blew an ECU 30 miles in, replaced it back home (works fine)...yet Polaris is sending me a "solution".."
We (as fans) can sit here and assume, maybe even incorrectly, that this guy is probably running even a slightly built motor (or not). We don't care. We at least 'hope' to determine what that 'solution' actually was whether it pertains to us directly or not. If he was racing NASCAR frankenstein cars we wouldn't care.
Race fans (in my opinion) are hanging on to every word that comes out of these races because we enjoy people living out our future possibilities with these same machines, fair competition and (for me alone evidently) not breaking down ourselves.
Like a racer, I put an inordinate amount of value on the latter when I'm hundreds of miles from home. For us (like racers I'm certain) we're sometimes fully invested in the trip-of-a-lifetime and possibly not ever blessed again to experience what most will never dream of.
So much in common...so little common ground (evidently).
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BiggJim
I Hate Rules - UTVUnderground Approved
I'd like to think clutchs could be made better.....those are a Team Industries product and not polaris. However under "normal" recreational use they should hold up a good while. We put an absolute beating on them. We have used aftermarkets that fail also.
Cody report is always legit (we have worked with them for a few years) so if a ECU shit the bed thats what it was. that car is a complete "Bolt on" car so watch for his reports.
Wes Miller 1988
New Member
I think the info that would be much more helpful to you is how my personal car held up to pre-running all year. I don't own the race car that I raced in. I'm not extremely wealthy or "privileged". I own a 2015 Polaris RZR XP 4 1000 that I bought myself. I have about 2500 miles on that car on the same race course at similar speeds.
I agree with the other post that "It's not expensive to make them reliable". I have driven my pre-runner hard all year and only have minor things done to it. It's all stock other than GBC 30" tires, DWT wheels, Pro Armor front seats, harnesses, fabric roof, tool bag, door bags, fire extinguisher, and spare tire mount, a Rugged Radio/intercom, and a GPS. I would say my car is far from exotic and much closer to what most people drive. I have driven that car very hard and had very few problems. In fact, I'm confident I could place well in it if it was race legal. The problem is by the time you make a race car legal, you've added a bunch of weight, etc... and it compounds multiple issues. But the average person is not going to have those issues. Outside of racing, who puts a 28 gal fuel cell in their car?
Pre-running for the Baja 1000, I ran over 900 miles in my car on the race course. I had no issues up until my last 5 miles, where I broke the lower left radius rod. No flats, belts, clutch problems, motor issues, transmission, drive train, etc... I never got out of the car once, other than to take a leak.
Over the entire year, the car has held up great. I've changed the oil and filters and put fresh tires on it. I broke one rear axle while driving on a flat. The front shocks also lost their seals and needed to be rebuilt. I would say I drove my car harder than the vast majority of people over those miles and I've been amazed at what the relatively stock car can handle.
While pre-running, I had the same issues of not wanting to be stuck in the middle of nowhere, etc... But I haven't had any problems. When the radius rod did break, I was lucky and close enough to limp it to a highway and throw it on a trailer.
Hopefully this gives better insight to what most recreational drivers should encounter doing the same. And I think there is a lot more common ground than most people think.
It'sYourLegacy
Banned Por Vida
Your opinion is appreciated coming from where you do whether it is agreed with or not and I appreciate the time taken (as with your race report). With not even getting in to why the aftermarket sells so many critical fixes for recreational riders, you're right: a whole lot of owners who slipped in to '15s like yourself with the actual cooling design needed to save their belts, a new belt design that worked, a helix that worked (etc.) at least benefitted from getting off the trailer before their vacations were ruined. $200 for a timing chain tensioner or even more for a billet fuel rail/valve that doesn't burn your entire family alive is probably financially akin to lunch in Cali as well..yet I digress.
I don't begrudge anybody good luck with their machines or question their experience.
It's simply funny that when mere 'fans' (sorry, expensively) building the exact same cars that you guys race but 'piece by piece' due to our budgetary constraints/not purchasing new cars every other year...ask largely blue collar racers (without any high stakes secrets) about 'what breaks'...silence (and often. remarkably, even laughingly, 'abuse').
Yet when a guy from a generation like George's (who just happens to race) willingly steps forward and simply shares what he knows from racing for the good of the sport and OEMish race fans alike?
"Suddenly"...he's ("oh thank you, George!!!) helping the only people that (apparently) 'matter' in this sport...those currently racing or those seeking to.
WE'RE DRIVING THE SAME CARS GUYS AND DESIRING THE SAME 'NEWS' ON RACE DAY AND IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS.
If George's generation has to be the one to slap everybody back in to reality as to who they are or why simply helping people is what life is all about (as opposed to protecting 'relationships')..then frankly we either need more Georges or more racers to pick up some perspective in life that (believe me) they will soon gain anyways.
Perhaps we should picture what we're talking about here as akin to 'lawnmower racing' and actually have fun with it just as much as everybody does this side of Ricky Bobby or the Rocky Mountains.
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Legacy, for someone who I assume is from George's generation, you sure act like you're from the entitlement generation.
As someone who would like to hear everyone's story of their Baja experience I know that these guys owe me nothing. That fact that you think a factory backed race team should come on hear and tell you everything that is wrong with their machine is strange to me. Most of the real weaknesses are pretty much well documented.
That being said George is 100% correct when he says anything can break when you torture it the way Baja does and I personally dont believe if a Baja racer says they lost an engine or transmission it means they are junk. There are many vehicles racing with super high dollar best of the best parts that still experience failures.
This is a free website with a lot of great info and entertainment value but some will never be happy.
As someone who would like to hear everyone's story of their Baja experience I know that these guys owe me nothing. That fact that you think a factory backed race team should come on hear and tell you everything that is wrong with their machine is strange to me. Most of the real weaknesses are pretty much well documented.
That being said George is 100% correct when he says anything can break when you torture it the way Baja does and I personally dont believe if a Baja racer says they lost an engine or transmission it means they are junk. There are many vehicles racing with super high dollar best of the best parts that still experience failures.
This is a free website with a lot of great info and entertainment value but some will never be happy.
It'sYourLegacy
Banned Por Vida
1. I asked the man for details after he punted (see Cognito's report as well)..thanked him anyways.. was attacked for asking..and explained why (as if I had to).
2. What "seems strange to you" and evidently many others in this inexplainable 'clique'..is that there are fans out here who recognize money being thrown at the cliques (perpetuating them) rather than at even minimum race coverage (which always seems to 'miraculously' appear every time somebody complains about it)
3. We don't like cliques or dog/pony show smoke-n-mirror race seasons as this year clearly demonstrated.
Once upon a time there were generations of Americans who simply spoke their minds to the above nonsense versus being scared that the 'clique' would no longer make them feel warm/fuzzy on race day or that their wallets would indeed suffer if they even so much as 'threw a bone' to the fans themselves.
This is(was) the generation (and I still believe many much younger) who look at the 2015 BITD season for the fiasco that it was..rather than through the eyes of a bunch of 'entitled' (insert Christian-inspired description here).
It's your 'clique'.
We just look at the whole thing as being comical as all get out when considering where the sport is now and most likely will be tomorrow.
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